Well I just swept both tweets one keeps failing to my ears sounds ever so slightly weak like it's missing something. It's super annoying as it's just enough to play mind games. Gotta send them both in to be rebuilt in the near feature.
Till I get the finances together at the end of the month let's try this mod on these energy 22 pro. Everybody loves sticking these sound dynamics tweeter in them. Lucky I have a set in storage. They come off smoking way more effiecent. 8-10db more effiecent. So let's try and correct that shall we?
Tried a 8.2 db chop that still presents a 6.8 ohm load. I would say a 9 db chop would be on par with the original tweeters.
But the original tweeter impedance is 4.2-4.5. Can I lower the sd tweeter impedance to match the energy tweeter specs and still lower the db? Anybody got a formula for that if it's possible.
The end goal is to match impedance with the original tweeter so it doesn't effect crossover point of the tweeter as much and get the db close as possible by ear.
As a note yes the crossover is only made for the original 22 tweet I understand that.
Till I get the finances together at the end of the month let's try this mod on these energy 22 pro. Everybody loves sticking these sound dynamics tweeter in them. Lucky I have a set in storage. They come off smoking way more effiecent. 8-10db more effiecent. So let's try and correct that shall we?
Tried a 8.2 db chop that still presents a 6.8 ohm load. I would say a 9 db chop would be on par with the original tweeters.
But the original tweeter impedance is 4.2-4.5. Can I lower the sd tweeter impedance to match the energy tweeter specs and still lower the db? Anybody got a formula for that if it's possible.
The end goal is to match impedance with the original tweeter so it doesn't effect crossover point of the tweeter as much and get the db close as possible by ear.
As a note yes the crossover is only made for the original 22 tweet I understand that.
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Just add a shunt resistor after the capacitor, to make the total 4.5R.
To go from 6.8R down to 4.5R would require adding a shunt of 13.3R.
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Typo. 8.2 db chop not ohm.
Tweeter is 6.8 ohm
Existing tweeter is 4.5 ohms
As of right now I got a 4.2 ohm resistor in series and a 4.2 ohm resistor in parallel. To achieve that 8.2 db chop value using just static values. Driver ohms out and 6.9 ish with it installed. How can I do this where the drivers reads 4.5 ohm and gets a 8.2 db chop.
Having issues uploading pics to show what I'm doing.
Tweeter is 6.8 ohm
Existing tweeter is 4.5 ohms
As of right now I got a 4.2 ohm resistor in series and a 4.2 ohm resistor in parallel. To achieve that 8.2 db chop value using just static values. Driver ohms out and 6.9 ish with it installed. How can I do this where the drivers reads 4.5 ohm and gets a 8.2 db chop.
Having issues uploading pics to show what I'm doing.
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Like this? The shunt should be 13.3R to make the capacitor load 4.5R.
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Have you searched the problem the electromechanical way?
- Check electrical resistance of both voice coils.
- Check resonant frequency and peak impedance of both units. (Requires computer with sound output, frequency generator software, RMS or soundcard multimeter, and a dummy resistor.)
- Ensure the voice coils of both transducers are properly centered. This is easily checked by playing something like 20Hz+2Khz at low volume. 20Hz amplitude shall be adjusted for 0.5mm p-p or so dome displacement, then 2Khz shall be added until it is clearly audible. The 20Hz shall not distort the 2Khz. Of course, direct connection between the tweeter and the amplifier is required for this test, and care not to damage the tweeter with signal generator transients.
- If you could get a measurement microphone the response of both units could be measured. (Requires computer with sound output/input, mic preamplifier, and measurement software.)
- Check electrical resistance of both voice coils.
- Check resonant frequency and peak impedance of both units. (Requires computer with sound output, frequency generator software, RMS or soundcard multimeter, and a dummy resistor.)
- Ensure the voice coils of both transducers are properly centered. This is easily checked by playing something like 20Hz+2Khz at low volume. 20Hz amplitude shall be adjusted for 0.5mm p-p or so dome displacement, then 2Khz shall be added until it is clearly audible. The 20Hz shall not distort the 2Khz. Of course, direct connection between the tweeter and the amplifier is required for this test, and care not to damage the tweeter with signal generator transients.
- If you could get a measurement microphone the response of both units could be measured. (Requires computer with sound output/input, mic preamplifier, and measurement software.)
Already checked the vc resistance its .1 off from each tweeter which is minor. I dont have any software to check its frequency range so I'm trusting my ears on this. The tweeters are known to just fail at any volume in energy 22 speakers. I'm suspecting early failure signs. Plus we have a replacement tweeter already that's energy 22 correct in one. I got them that way. So maybe the tweeters are simply from different batches and made slightly different.
To align passive crossovers it is recommended to remove them from the enclosure, hook them up with long enough wires, and tweak with components from a suitable listening test position. The capacitors and resistors in the crossover are parts that could drift too. A tweeter with different sensitivity and waveguide shape will surely have different frequency response, so the approach of just installing a resistor divider may result in unacceptable tonal imbalance (either some region protruding, or some other).
I think you are wasting your time here.
Most likely issue is dried up ferrofluid clogging up the tweeter:
HUMAN Speakers: Energy by API Speaker Repairs
A visual inspection should see if this is the problem. 30 years old speakers are very likely to suffer from this. Take the tweeters apart and look. Easy enough to clean it out and replace with fresh.
We seem to have a schematic. That 47uF NP Electrolytic in the bass section is likely deteriorated too. I would also check all the connections for corrosion and dry joints in the soldering.
Most likely issue is dried up ferrofluid clogging up the tweeter:
HUMAN Speakers: Energy by API Speaker Repairs
A visual inspection should see if this is the problem. 30 years old speakers are very likely to suffer from this. Take the tweeters apart and look. Easy enough to clean it out and replace with fresh.
We seem to have a schematic. That 47uF NP Electrolytic in the bass section is likely deteriorated too. I would also check all the connections for corrosion and dry joints in the soldering.
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Steve,
I have a set of these speakers and have had the fluid recently replaced and the tweeters checked by Chris Coote,one of the original techs who worked for Energy.I have not replaced th 47uF cap you mentioned.Can you tell me what the sonic implications are of that cap if it is dried out?
This is quite an established sort of design these days. Troels Gravesen is fond of big waveguide tweeters:
TQWT-
If the 47uF bass shunt capacitor deteriorates, the midrange around 2kHz would be altered in tone. The 7" polycone bass would roll off less steeply and phase would worsen dramatically. These things are so cheap to replace, I would do it anyway. Stuff like Mundorf 70V should be fine.
If you've had them serviced, your friend Chris may well have measured them with a multimeter anyway.
TQWT-
If the 47uF bass shunt capacitor deteriorates, the midrange around 2kHz would be altered in tone. The 7" polycone bass would roll off less steeply and phase would worsen dramatically. These things are so cheap to replace, I would do it anyway. Stuff like Mundorf 70V should be fine.
If you've had them serviced, your friend Chris may well have measured them with a multimeter anyway.
Steve,This is quite an established sort of design these days. Troels Gravesen is fond of big waveguide tweeters:
TQWT-
If the 47uF bass shunt capacitor deteriorates, the midrange around 2kHz would be altered in tone. The 7" polycone bass would roll off less steeply and phase would worsen dramatically. These things are so cheap to replace, I would do it anyway. Stuff like Mundorf 70V should be fine.
If you've had them serviced, your friend Chris may well have measured them with a multimeter anyway.
Thank you for such a quick reply! I did not send the whole speaker to Chris,just the tweeters.I will take your advice and replace the caps. These speakers are too good to not have them preforming at their best. Cheers!
Going to order some new ferrofuild and clean out the old Crud to see if it helps. When I was digging around in there I only seen 1 electrolytic the rest plastic capacitors. The electrolytic would be suspect as the plastic caps seem to last a long time.
Trying it with a shunt didn't help much. The sd tweet crossover at 2250 hz and the energy at 1800 hz I think.
Those sd tweets are just lacking compared to those energy tweeters. The detail and soundstage are worlds apart.
Trying it with a shunt didn't help much. The sd tweet crossover at 2250 hz and the energy at 1800 hz I think.
Those sd tweets are just lacking compared to those energy tweeters. The detail and soundstage are worlds apart.
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I'm curious if one of Huw Powell's (Human Speakers) EPI tweeters would work,he has one almost the same diameter as the Energy.The EPI crosses over at 1800hz with a simple capacitor,not a steeper filter like the Energys have so the EPI tweeter should have no problem handling the power.Ha---all we have to do is nicely ask Steve for some pointers along the way.Just a suggestion if you have a totally trashed Energy tweeter as a full rebuild is at least $250 per.
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