Hello,
I have developed many 2 way bookshelf speakers, though never a center channel or soundbar. I am wondering if I need to implement or alter an design principles used in bookshelf design. The sound bar will be a traditional left / right design with a tweeter and two 4" miss per channel.
Thanks in advance!
I have developed many 2 way bookshelf speakers, though never a center channel or soundbar. I am wondering if I need to implement or alter an design principles used in bookshelf design. The sound bar will be a traditional left / right design with a tweeter and two 4" miss per channel.
Thanks in advance!
You need to spell out the intended application such as just TV sound only or HT at higher SPLs or even music. Each has a different design path.
FWIW, most soundbars get their sound and benefits from the electronic side of things more so than the drivers used. It's easier just to add stereo speakers each side of the TV.
I looked at building a soundbar to replace the TV speaker (crap) but was easier just to buy a cheap Yamaha one which does the job well for normal TV use plus it doesn't block the screen. For movies I still use a 4.1.2 setup as soundbars don't come close for a movie experience.
FWIW, most soundbars get their sound and benefits from the electronic side of things more so than the drivers used. It's easier just to add stereo speakers each side of the TV.
I looked at building a soundbar to replace the TV speaker (crap) but was easier just to buy a cheap Yamaha one which does the job well for normal TV use plus it doesn't block the screen. For movies I still use a 4.1.2 setup as soundbars don't come close for a movie experience.
80% TV, 20% Audio.
What do you mean in saying that sounders get most of their benefits form the electronic side of things?
I agree that its easier and sounds better to do a traditional L/R setup, so is placing monkey coffins in my living room. Not my style. I am willing to give up some sound quality for the aesthetic that I am trying to achieve, that said I want to make the speakers sound as best as possible in the design I am conceptualizing. Plus a challenge is fun.
I guess I will plan to order some drivers and begin to test and play with voicing. Thanks for the input.
What do you mean in saying that sounders get most of their benefits form the electronic side of things?
I agree that its easier and sounds better to do a traditional L/R setup, so is placing monkey coffins in my living room. Not my style. I am willing to give up some sound quality for the aesthetic that I am trying to achieve, that said I want to make the speakers sound as best as possible in the design I am conceptualizing. Plus a challenge is fun.
I guess I will plan to order some drivers and begin to test and play with voicing. Thanks for the input.
It’s really a matter of clearly defining your listening objectives.
I’m building a custom speaker bar with the specific objective of being able to watch TV programs and DVDs without having to turn on the closed captions. Right now that is just about impossible with the crappy little drivers in the new flat screen TV.
My solution is a 3 channel (L/C/R) passive sound bar with a Yamaha AVR to drive it. It’s built with a 7” high by 49” wide baffle that completely fills a shelf in the cabinet beneath the TV screen. By filling the shelf opening the baffle prevents any bass from traveling backwards into cabinet and booming back out.
The enclosure behind the front baffle is about 5” deep and contains a separate 4 liter sealed chamber for each driver.
Initial testing is just with a single driver in the center channel, because that is where the vast majority of the dialogue takes place for multi-channel sources. Some programming is only PCM stereo and for those I use the receiver’s DSP to create the center channel output.
So far I’ve tried a ScanSpeak 10F/8414 with great results. We rarely need to turn on the closed captions any more.
I have a Tang Band W4-2142 on order and will try that in the same baffle as well. The SS is woven fiberglass whereas the TB is paper/bamboo. I’m curious to see if there is any significant difference in dialogue clarity between the two based on the cone material. Once I decide which driver to use, I’ll buy two more for the L/R channels and finish the speaker bar.
I don’t see any need for 2 or 3 way designs for this everyday TV speaker bar. It is not intended to be a room shaking HT solution. Good quality full ranges drivers are more than adequate to cover the frequency range and they sound great without the complications or costs of crossovers.
Electronics do make a soundbar as most of them use ordinary drivers but they can work well.
Some of the electronics that help with the sound and convenience:
DAC for PCM, Dolby, DTS, DTS Virtual:X, AAC etc, various surround modes plus stereo
HDMI, Toslink, BT, analog, subwoofer out
Remote or App control as well as using TV remote for volume via HDMI ARC
Turns off and on with the TV
Bass extension, clear voice modes, sound optimised for mounting method
3 speakers each channel ending up with 2.1 with 2+1 amp
All these add up to make for a better experience for TV viewing. Most TVs have poor sound (mine do) and a good soundbar can help. I quickly built a soundbar using FR drivers and the result was OK but then a DAC and amplifier has to be added. For AU$249 for the Yamaha soundbar works a treat, doesn't block the screen and the sound is more than adequate for general viewing, documentaries and the odd movie as it gives added clarity and body.
In the same location I have a stereo system as well as a HT system but I didn't want to run those for just day to day viewing. In my office the TV has stereo speakers and a sub to give very good sound which is much better than a soundbar but it's used for movies and not general viewing.
Of course it's fun just to design and build something but after a decade and a half and 60+ designed and built, an off the shelf component can be a blessing. Besides, I couldn't build it for the price.
IMO, a LCR in one box is less effective than the same drivers in separate enclosures with LR beside the screen. C can be above or below the screen but tilted to the viewer.
Some of the electronics that help with the sound and convenience:
DAC for PCM, Dolby, DTS, DTS Virtual:X, AAC etc, various surround modes plus stereo
HDMI, Toslink, BT, analog, subwoofer out
Remote or App control as well as using TV remote for volume via HDMI ARC
Turns off and on with the TV
Bass extension, clear voice modes, sound optimised for mounting method
3 speakers each channel ending up with 2.1 with 2+1 amp
All these add up to make for a better experience for TV viewing. Most TVs have poor sound (mine do) and a good soundbar can help. I quickly built a soundbar using FR drivers and the result was OK but then a DAC and amplifier has to be added. For AU$249 for the Yamaha soundbar works a treat, doesn't block the screen and the sound is more than adequate for general viewing, documentaries and the odd movie as it gives added clarity and body.
In the same location I have a stereo system as well as a HT system but I didn't want to run those for just day to day viewing. In my office the TV has stereo speakers and a sub to give very good sound which is much better than a soundbar but it's used for movies and not general viewing.
Of course it's fun just to design and build something but after a decade and a half and 60+ designed and built, an off the shelf component can be a blessing. Besides, I couldn't build it for the price.
IMO, a LCR in one box is less effective than the same drivers in separate enclosures with LR beside the screen. C can be above or below the screen but tilted to the viewer.
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There are two types of soundbars - active and passive - and any discussion needs to be specific to the type.
Most commercial soundbars sold at retail are the active type with built-in amplification, DSP, selectable inputs, volume control, etc.
Passive soundbars are really just a combination of drivers in a single enclosure with a horizontal orientation for placement usually below the TV screen. Typically the drivers are arranged in an L/C/R format. And, of course, they must be driven by a separate amplifier which is generally an AVR with all of the features mentioned above.
The original post seemed to be about building a passive soundbar, which is exactly the same thing I’m currently doing.
While the Yamaha active soundbar for $250 may sound good, I have a hard time imagining the sound quality can match a DIY construction with a set of three drivers that cost almost that much alone.
Most commercial soundbars sold at retail are the active type with built-in amplification, DSP, selectable inputs, volume control, etc.
Passive soundbars are really just a combination of drivers in a single enclosure with a horizontal orientation for placement usually below the TV screen. Typically the drivers are arranged in an L/C/R format. And, of course, they must be driven by a separate amplifier which is generally an AVR with all of the features mentioned above.
The original post seemed to be about building a passive soundbar, which is exactly the same thing I’m currently doing.
While the Yamaha active soundbar for $250 may sound good, I have a hard time imagining the sound quality can match a DIY construction with a set of three drivers that cost almost that much alone.
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You are correct in what you have said and as you have mentioned passive is a different beast.
The Yamaha sounds better and more balanced than any of the FR drivers I've tried but is bettered by a decent multiway. Even my budget SB12PAC/NE19 does better but that requires a crossover so costs more and is taller than desired as would block the screen (no space for it below).
I tried FR from SB Acoustics and Vifa for this purpose but have tried Fostex, CSS and TangBand in the past. I haven't tried the Scan Speak FR but have used their Revelator and other drivers successfully in other designs.
The Yamaha sounds better and more balanced than any of the FR drivers I've tried but is bettered by a decent multiway. Even my budget SB12PAC/NE19 does better but that requires a crossover so costs more and is taller than desired as would block the screen (no space for it below).
I tried FR from SB Acoustics and Vifa for this purpose but have tried Fostex, CSS and TangBand in the past. I haven't tried the Scan Speak FR but have used their Revelator and other drivers successfully in other designs.
Thanks for the link to Troels TV speakers. I had not seen that particular build from him before, but I know that he likes the 10F/8414 for its very low distortion. That’s one of the main reasons I’m trying it for my soundbar. The TangBand is also supposed to have similarly low distortion, so it’s my other candidate.
Low distortion is at the very top of my criteria list. Everything else - frequency response, bass extension, sensitivity, etc. – all come afterwards. That’s one of the main reasons I’m building my own soundbar. So that I can control the components and use high quality, low distortion drivers. I did audition several commercial soundbars at first in stores and they all had way too much distortion for my ears.
There is a strong argument that an L/R only combination with horizontal MTMs is not a particularly good way to go.
Instead some pretty well experienced posters favor a simpler L/C/R with single full range drivers. If you need more bass, then you can add a sub.
Here is a link to an earlier discussion that you might find helpful:
SoundBar
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