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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Transmission line Omni speakers? Duevel Planets clone with transmission line?
Transmission line Omni speakers? Duevel Planets clone with transmission line?
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Old 10th October 2018, 05:56 PM   #21
DonVK is offline DonVK  Canada
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Now with a sphere.
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File Type: jpg horn + sphere @2Khz.jpg (38.2 KB, 83 views)
File Type: jpg horn + sphere @3.4Khz.jpg (50.0 KB, 82 views)
File Type: jpg horn + sphere @4Khz.jpg (48.4 KB, 80 views)
File Type: jpg horn + sphere @7Khz.jpg (61.5 KB, 79 views)
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Old 11th October 2018, 10:00 PM   #22
DeeLuxx is offline DeeLuxx  New Zealand
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Hi Don, thanks so much for all of this!

So looks like the HF is a mess of nodes with the sphere, but better than nothing i guess and the sphere does aid the dispersion somewhat. I assume the ceiling reflections will help a bit as well.

I had a look into machining the Duevel style wooden horn on the CNC and its just a bit of a hassle at this stage, so will stick with the spheres. I can always machine it later on if i want.

I think I've narrowed down the drivers, will order in the next few days.

Woofer - Aurum Cantus AC-180F1 7" Woofer - only concern is that Qts is still on the low side but should be ok

Compression driver - Selenium D220Ti 1" Titanium Horn Driver 8 Ohm 1-3/8"-18

Horns - Selenium HL14-25 1" Exponential Horn 45x45 1-3/8"-18 TPI and Dayton Audio H08RW 8" Round Waveguide 1-3/8"-18 TPI (will try the horn within horn reflector)

I'll also grab a USB measurement mic.

I saw the Dayton USB speaker analyzer ( Dayton Audio DATS V2 Computer Based Audio Component Test System ) - Is this any good? useful? I have a scope etc handy but if this save significant time and effort than perhaps worth a look.
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Old 11th October 2018, 11:10 PM   #23
pkitt is offline pkitt  United States
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John Krutke (Zaph Audio) measured the AC-180F-1 and did not get a low Qts (and AC's published specs tend to be not at all what you get). Go to this link and select this driver, then its T/S measurements.
Zaph|Audio
Paul

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeLuxx View Post
Hi Don, thanks so much for all of this!

So looks like the HF is a mess of nodes with the sphere, but better than nothing i guess and the sphere does aid the dispersion somewhat. I assume the ceiling reflections will help a bit as well.

I had a look into machining the Duevel style wooden horn on the CNC and its just a bit of a hassle at this stage, so will stick with the spheres. I can always machine it later on if i want.

I think I've narrowed down the drivers, will order in the next few days.

Woofer - Aurum Cantus AC-180F1 7" Woofer - only concern is that Qts is still on the low side but should be ok

Compression driver - Selenium D220Ti 1" Titanium Horn Driver 8 Ohm 1-3/8"-18

Horns - Selenium HL14-25 1" Exponential Horn 45x45 1-3/8"-18 TPI and Dayton Audio H08RW 8" Round Waveguide 1-3/8"-18 TPI (will try the horn within horn reflector)

I'll also grab a USB measurement mic.

I saw the Dayton USB speaker analyzer ( Dayton Audio DATS V2 Computer Based Audio Component Test System ) - Is this any good? useful? I have a scope etc handy but if this save significant time and effort than perhaps worth a look.
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Old 12th October 2018, 12:12 AM   #24
DeeLuxx is offline DeeLuxx  New Zealand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkitt View Post
John Krutke (Zaph Audio) measured the AC-180F-1 and did not get a low Qts (and AC's published specs tend to be not at all what you get). Go to this link and select this driver, then its T/S measurements.
Zaph|Audio
Paul
Thanks Paul, just had a look and it seems to be way off what the manufacturer stated.

Seems much harder than i thought to find an appropriate woofer.

Would you be able to suggest a woofer in a similar price range ($75 ish) and size (6-8 inch) that has a good low frequency extension, efficiency and a Qts that is suitable for a TL?

I had a look around the Madisound website and they have quite a range, but again not sure. Seems i'll still have to get the compression driver from parts express as well.

Thanks!
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Old 12th October 2018, 12:34 AM   #25
Andersonix is offline Andersonix  Sweden
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Transmission line Omni speakers? Duevel Planets clone with transmission line?
With CNC and 3D printing access maybe you could take on 'Plu-Tosh' (my one box concept for SL's Pluto+)?
One box concept for Pluto+: 'Plu-Tosh'
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Old 12th October 2018, 01:20 AM   #26
DonVK is offline DonVK  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeLuxx View Post
Hi Don, thanks so much for all of this!

So looks like the HF is a mess of nodes with the sphere, but better than nothing i guess and the sphere does aid the dispersion somewhat. I assume the ceiling reflections will help a bit as well.
Yes, but its surprising what gets filled in by the room when you spray it with an Omni.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeLuxx View Post
I had a look into machining the Duevel style wooden horn on the CNC and its just a bit of a hassle at this stage, so will stick with the spheres. I can always machine it later on if i want.

I think I've narrowed down the drivers, will order in the next few days.

Woofer - Aurum Cantus AC-180F1 7" Woofer - only concern is that Qts is still on the low side but should be ok

Compression driver - Selenium D220Ti 1" Titanium Horn Driver 8 Ohm 1-3/8"-18

Horns - Selenium HL14-25 1" Exponential Horn 45x45 1-3/8"-18 TPI and Dayton Audio H08RW 8" Round Waveguide 1-3/8"-18 TPI (will try the horn within horn reflector)
The CD looks good. There's probably some optimal sphere distance and diameter for the chosen horn that might be quicker to find via experiment. I can't comment on the woofer as I'd need to run it through a HornResp model to get a working TL design. BTW you can probably suppress the woofer rear reflection better with a TL than a closed box like mine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeLuxx View Post
I'll also grab a USB measurement mic.

I saw the Dayton USB speaker analyzer ( Dayton Audio DATS V2 Computer Based Audio Component Test System ) - Is this any good? useful? I have a scope etc handy but if this save significant time and effort than perhaps worth a look.
A single USB mic (calibrated preferred) and REW is enough to make your measurements. REW can also do impedance measurements using a single resistor divider and a sound card headphone output. Useful for checking tuning.

I can't comment on the speaker measurement suite. I use the specs of what I bought and tune what I built.

P.S. I'll drop off this thread for 2wks cause I'll be on vacation. I'll catch up when I'm back.

Last edited by DonVK; 12th October 2018 at 01:26 AM. Reason: grammer
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Old 12th October 2018, 02:11 AM   #27
DeeLuxx is offline DeeLuxx  New Zealand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonVK View Post
P.S. I'll drop off this thread for 2wks cause I'll be on vacation. I'll catch up when I'm back.
Hey thanks so much for all the help! I'll keep chipping away at it so hopefully there will be something interesting for you to come back to.

Have a good vacation!
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Old 12th October 2018, 01:41 PM   #28
pkitt is offline pkitt  United States
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I used the SB Acoustics SB17NRX35-8 in a TL with very good results. You can use that same Zaph Audio link to get his T/S measurements which is what I used for my build. They are different from SB's published specs, but their differences are pretty much self compensating, like almost the same fS/Qts ratio and same Vas x fs2 product. Using either set of T/S values will result in virtually identical predicted performance in the same TL. [The differences between Aurum Cantas' specs and actual measurements are not self compensating.]
Paul

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeLuxx View Post
Thanks Paul, just had a look and it seems to be way off what the manufacturer stated.

Seems much harder than i thought to find an appropriate woofer.

Would you be able to suggest a woofer in a similar price range ($75 ish) and size (6-8 inch) that has a good low frequency extension, efficiency and a Qts that is suitable for a TL?

I had a look around the Madisound website and they have quite a range, but again not sure. Seems i'll still have to get the compression driver from parts express as well.

Thanks!
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Old 12th October 2018, 02:10 PM   #29
Patrick Bateman is offline Patrick Bateman  United States
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I have a couple of those. SB Acoustics is a ridiculously good bargain.
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Old 13th October 2018, 01:28 AM   #30
DeeLuxx is offline DeeLuxx  New Zealand
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Just went to go buy the SB17NRX35-8 from madisound here - SB Acoustics SB17MFC35-8 6" Poly Cone Woofer but shipping to New Zealand is about $60, basically the same cost of the speaker.

Parts express have better shipping to NZ ($30) so I could get a more expensive woofer from them if there is something suitable.

Or is there something else from madisound that is worth it for a bit more money? (preferably 8 inch)

I've had a look on both parts express and madisound and there are a few that look good on paper (eg the Dayton 8" reference woofers) but again I cant find much data from others that have measured the speakers so I'm unsure.

Otherwise will just get the SB17NRX35-8
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