Thank you Paul for detailed sims.
looks like either one of the three options (Dome+WG , CD+Horn , AMT), with some pros and cons for each will serve the purpose eventually.
lets look at some cons for each, it might help:
-Dome+WG: Not many options for 8ohm 92db+ tweeters, Probably need custom made wave guide.
-CD+Horn: More direct sound, not easy to find measurements for sim.
-AMT: Expensive.
I have thought about this, My first personal choice (based on my taste not experience) is Dome+Waveguide, the problem here is if we can't find a suitable waveguide, designing one and building one can introduce a lot of delay to the project and we may need to avoid that to keep the interest,.
Also after some more thoughts, I m more open to CDs, since if I want to listen to something i sit in the sweet spot and if I walk around means I m not listening much.
so the more direct sound is not a deal breaker for me.
as for now I have to wait, if things go well I might have the option for the Beyma AMT as well.
looks like either one of the three options (Dome+WG , CD+Horn , AMT), with some pros and cons for each will serve the purpose eventually.
lets look at some cons for each, it might help:
-Dome+WG: Not many options for 8ohm 92db+ tweeters, Probably need custom made wave guide.
-CD+Horn: More direct sound, not easy to find measurements for sim.
-AMT: Expensive.
I have thought about this, My first personal choice (based on my taste not experience) is Dome+Waveguide, the problem here is if we can't find a suitable waveguide, designing one and building one can introduce a lot of delay to the project and we may need to avoid that to keep the interest,.
Also after some more thoughts, I m more open to CDs, since if I want to listen to something i sit in the sweet spot and if I walk around means I m not listening much.
so the more direct sound is not a deal breaker for me.
as for now I have to wait, if things go well I might have the option for the Beyma AMT as well.
Last edited:
Found some measurements of the Beyma TPL-150H.
I have never actually heard these myself, but based on who has heard it and what they think of it. I'd say it's probably a good option for this type of build. With or without horn/waveguide.
thanks Kaffimann. do you have the TPL150 as well ? (without the horn)
I tried to find some reviews and everyone seems to like this driver very much!
Would the Eminence APT 50 OR ASD 1001 with matching tweeter lens from ZU Audio be any good? ASD:1001 Tweeter Pair | Zu Audio
Zu Machined Tweeter Lens Small V3 | Zu Audio
The lens says usable bandwidth down to 4k, so possibly not.
Apologies if it's a ludicrous suggestion from a new
Zu Machined Tweeter Lens Small V3 | Zu Audio
The lens says usable bandwidth down to 4k, so possibly not.
Apologies if it's a ludicrous suggestion from a new
To get an idea how off axis responses will look like, combining midrange AE TD8M with different types of tweeters, I have compared 15, 30 and 45 degrees horizontal off axis responses, normalized to the on axis response.
- AE TD 8M - measurement AE (green color)
- Dome tweeter without waveguide - Satori TW29BN (blue color)
- Dome tweeter with waveguide - Monacor DT300-WG300 (yellow color).
- CD tweeter with horn - 18Sound XT1086 + ND1075 (pink color)
- Beyma TPL-150H – AMT with horn – off axis measurements found by Kaffiman (black color)
Looking to the off axis response of the midrange below 2 kHz and the off axis response of a particular tweeter above 2 kHz, gives an idea how the off axis responses of the total speaker with X-over at 2kHz are expected to look like.
The combi AE TD8M - dome tweeter with waveguide (Monacor) is expected to be most flat off axis, especially if looking at 45 degrees.
AMT without waveguide not considered here, because it can be compared with a dome without waveguide in the single horizontal plane.
- AE TD 8M - measurement AE (green color)
- Dome tweeter without waveguide - Satori TW29BN (blue color)
- Dome tweeter with waveguide - Monacor DT300-WG300 (yellow color).
- CD tweeter with horn - 18Sound XT1086 + ND1075 (pink color)
- Beyma TPL-150H – AMT with horn – off axis measurements found by Kaffiman (black color)
Looking to the off axis response of the midrange below 2 kHz and the off axis response of a particular tweeter above 2 kHz, gives an idea how the off axis responses of the total speaker with X-over at 2kHz are expected to look like.
The combi AE TD8M - dome tweeter with waveguide (Monacor) is expected to be most flat off axis, especially if looking at 45 degrees.
AMT without waveguide not considered here, because it can be compared with a dome without waveguide in the single horizontal plane.
Attachments
Aatto, my Google-Fu has failed me so far. In the search of decent measurements for the TPL-150 at least.
Been looking around a bit, the Morel CAT 378 is interesting.
The Tang Band 28-1582S also looks "ok" but the only off axis measurements I could find was low resolution with non-specific dividers.
Most tweeters that look promising from Scan-Speak and Seas are 6 ohm, but I just don't see the problem with this. something like for instance the Scan-Speak H2606/920000 looks nice enough, gives 95db/2.83v on axis, and it's quite cheap.
But personally I'd like to see the Seas 29TFF/W get some love, reasonably priced and real smooth. Value for money.
The Seas 27TFFC and 27TFF also look quite nice, but slightly lower sensitivity.
Want to dabble in Aluminium/Magnesium alloys? then Seas 27TBC/G got you covered.
Been looking around a bit, the Morel CAT 378 is interesting.
The Tang Band 28-1582S also looks "ok" but the only off axis measurements I could find was low resolution with non-specific dividers.
Most tweeters that look promising from Scan-Speak and Seas are 6 ohm, but I just don't see the problem with this. something like for instance the Scan-Speak H2606/920000 looks nice enough, gives 95db/2.83v on axis, and it's quite cheap.
But personally I'd like to see the Seas 29TFF/W get some love, reasonably priced and real smooth. Value for money.
The Seas 27TFFC and 27TFF also look quite nice, but slightly lower sensitivity.
Want to dabble in Aluminium/Magnesium alloys? then Seas 27TBC/G got you covered.
Last edited:
When setting a visual criteria ( as a blueprint to follow ) that will help predict good imaging, it's my belief that if one gets the horizontal polars ( lines ) to evenly track each other ( without crossing ) for at least one decade worth of bandwidth ( say 700hz to 7K ) then the designer is more than half-way there.
Here are 2 wave-guide examples to illustrate.
(A) The listening axis that I would choose from this first example ( for toe-in purposes, to find the best imaging ) would be 30 or the 37.5 deg trace ( yellow or green ).
FYI, this was raw data and not EQed.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
(B) The following is nice but it's unfortunate that this horn isn't larger ( to go lower down to 700hz for instance ).
- If it was and those traces were separated evenly down to a lower frequency ( such as 700hz ), this horn would stand to out-perform the first example ( imaging wise ).
- This waveguide would need to be mated/blended with a 15" woofers output ( that's already starting to narrow it's polars prior to 1000hz ) to extract it's best performance ( imaging wise ).
PS: I'm not suggesting using large wave-guides with compression drivers ( etc ) for this project, I'm just showing the polar response that would punch my ticket ( and somewhat challenging the designers to establish and meet a similar criteria ).
Last edited:
They're not particularly good drivers and the flare is too shallow to give any useful loading or directivity. I would never believe anything Zu said without independent measurements corroborating their claims.
Here's a little study showing the sort of polars one can expect when an 8" woofer is mated to a shallow waveguide ( driven by a small compression driver ).
Here are a couple of pics of the actual waveguide ( NLA, I believe ).
And finally to give an idea of frontal size, a shot of the prototype DIYSG product ( which was discontinued some years back ) .
Here are a couple of pics of the actual waveguide ( NLA, I believe ).
And finally to give an idea of frontal size, a shot of the prototype DIYSG product ( which was discontinued some years back ) .
Attachments
EarlK,
Do you know where to find more information about this NLA waveguide?
To have the off axis responses of the waveguide tweeter separate and to compare with the AE TD8M off axis.
I am looking for a waveguide for a CD tweeter, not too deep for a good acoustic center aligning, and less directive than most other CD tweeter waveguides. A waveguide like the Monacor WG300 or the Visaton WG148R, but one that can be mounted on a CD tweeter.
The problem with most dome tweeters is the sensitivity that is on the limit at 20 kHz, except the expensive ones and these last ones cannot be mounted on a waveguide in many cases.
I think a CD tweeter with a waveguide that is not too large can be a solution for this project.
Do you know where to find more information about this NLA waveguide?
To have the off axis responses of the waveguide tweeter separate and to compare with the AE TD8M off axis.
I am looking for a waveguide for a CD tweeter, not too deep for a good acoustic center aligning, and less directive than most other CD tweeter waveguides. A waveguide like the Monacor WG300 or the Visaton WG148R, but one that can be mounted on a CD tweeter.
The problem with most dome tweeters is the sensitivity that is on the limit at 20 kHz, except the expensive ones and these last ones cannot be mounted on a waveguide in many cases.
I think a CD tweeter with a waveguide that is not too large can be a solution for this project.
Hi Paul,
N.L.A. = means "No Longer Available"
That said, its status is an assumption on my part.
Contact Erich at DIYSG to get his input.
I'm pretty sure he imported these from China ( in droves ) and they were very cheap ( unmounted they are also quite flimsy, I'm told ).
Ask him for his Asian contact if he's out these parts ( & he's willing to divulge ).
I would not use a compression driver with anything bigger than a 35mm diaphragm for this project.
Aluminum would be my first choice for a diaphragm material.
We Set the 8 Ohm spec for low current demand / amp friendliness. I guess this is most relevant at low / bass frequencies. What do you think about this when it comes to treble?
Hi Sorry for my absent. still no news from AE and I m pretty pi$$#d at this point. I did read the replies tho, a shallow WG combined with a horn, looks like a good option, in other hand I came across this : Morel ET 338 1-1/8" Soft Dome Tweeter Matched Pair price is fair for a matched pair. it is a 1-1/8" dome with 92.5db. not sure if the mentioned WGs fit 1-1/8" tho. I still think we should stick to already made and available WGs, since designing and prototyping it wouldn't help this project much at this point, we can always do this later. and now with green light for 6-4 ohm tweeters we have much wider options. this is something worth taking a look:
Wavecor TW030WA11
Visaton WG 148 and maybe Wg 220x150, looks like the only options for "readily available", is it too small for 8" mid ?
Wavecor TW030WA11
Visaton WG 148 and maybe Wg 220x150, looks like the only options for "readily available", is it too small for 8" mid ?
You can always machine the WG148 to make it work on a 1-1/8 dome. The trick is to make it fit such that the throat mounts flush where the surround is fixed on the driver, and that there are no leaks between the throat and the driver. This is easier with some drivers (Seas?), but tricky with others (Scans?).
How about the Omnes T25H tweeter?
How about the Omnes T25H tweeter?
Hi Aatto,
You also have Monacor WG 300 and Seos offerings from Diysoundgroup as other readily available choices. I used the Monacor waveguide with SS D2604/83300 with minimal modifications to make it a more solid piece. The SEOS WG looks like they are well made units that may work in certain situations/applications.
Best,
Rich
You also have Monacor WG 300 and Seos offerings from Diysoundgroup as other readily available choices. I used the Monacor waveguide with SS D2604/83300 with minimal modifications to make it a more solid piece. The SEOS WG looks like they are well made units that may work in certain situations/applications.
Best,
Rich
Market law, if a company don't support your consumer the products shouldn't be bought. This is the way to gives as a message that we are dissatisfied. Next, the AE driver could be removed as option.
The headache may worth when there is no options, but it's not the case.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.