thanks, my take was that we are changing course and 15X doesn't fit the criteria anymore, I ordered the drivers 2 days ago by the way.
Aatto,
If you have no problem making the cabinet larger, it gives more low frequency extension of course. I thought it would be not so practical.
I have only looked to SPL and groupsdelay.
Now I understand Kaffimann's point better (I think), TD15X has different TSP parameters compared witht the Faitals and needs more volume for the same SPL curve shape at low frequencies.
Edit: some comparing responses.
AE TD15X in 225 L / FB 19 Hz (green) and 150 L / FB 24 Hz (blue), Faital in 150 L / FB 24 Hz (red)
If you have no problem making the cabinet larger, it gives more low frequency extension of course. I thought it would be not so practical.
I have only looked to SPL and groupsdelay.
Now I understand Kaffimann's point better (I think), TD15X has different TSP parameters compared witht the Faitals and needs more volume for the same SPL curve shape at low frequencies.
Edit: some comparing responses.
AE TD15X in 225 L / FB 19 Hz (green) and 150 L / FB 24 Hz (blue), Faital in 150 L / FB 24 Hz (red)
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Now you got it Paul.
More specific: Focus on VAS and FS in this case. With these exact drivers (all of them) you *could* have near flat response to fs with a B4 alignment in a closer (not exact) to VAS enclosure.
The Faital drivers will not go so low, and in turn does not require much volume to do so even if you force them. The AE driver demands volume to perform, it is probably a better driver, but it comes with a different set of compromises.
Aatto:
Be happy with your TD15X, build a MUCH bigger box, over 300 liters, and get extension to 10hz. Put on your wicked grin and laugh at the peasants that build the tiny 150 liter version with the Faital drivers.
More specific: Focus on VAS and FS in this case. With these exact drivers (all of them) you *could* have near flat response to fs with a B4 alignment in a closer (not exact) to VAS enclosure.
The Faital drivers will not go so low, and in turn does not require much volume to do so even if you force them. The AE driver demands volume to perform, it is probably a better driver, but it comes with a different set of compromises.
Aatto:
Be happy with your TD15X, build a MUCH bigger box, over 300 liters, and get extension to 10hz. Put on your wicked grin and laugh at the peasants that build the tiny 150 liter version with the Faital drivers.
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Probably, the drivers SICA 15 S 3 PL and the Bayma 15WRS400 will be in the middle of AE TD15X and the FaitalPRO 15FH520 in terms of box size and LF extension.
As aways, is just about compromises but who will decide?
The first page indicates LF target being 35-40Hz within -3db, and we were concerning about don't having much LF under 30Hz. Looks like the targets should be better reviewed and a decisional process in more impersonal way should be chosen to converge the solution.
Giving project trace will be the way to allow anyone that is not happy with the project to change what is desire and to adapt the project for others targets or other boundaries condition.
As aways, is just about compromises but who will decide?
The first page indicates LF target being 35-40Hz within -3db, and we were concerning about don't having much LF under 30Hz. Looks like the targets should be better reviewed and a decisional process in more impersonal way should be chosen to converge the solution.
Giving project trace will be the way to allow anyone that is not happy with the project to change what is desire and to adapt the project for others targets or other boundaries condition.
Lordsansui:
To be clear, my intention of using a different target on frequency extension is primarily: So that bass down to 30hz can be much more articulate and detailed than if you aimed for a ruler flat to 40hz then drop like a skydiver sans parachute. My focus is on QUALITY, exactly where it is needed and can be noticed, the deep frequency extension is just a very nice bonus.
To be clear, my intention of using a different target on frequency extension is primarily: So that bass down to 30hz can be much more articulate and detailed than if you aimed for a ruler flat to 40hz then drop like a skydiver sans parachute. My focus is on QUALITY, exactly where it is needed and can be noticed, the deep frequency extension is just a very nice bonus.
as example for the decisional, a simple excel sheet can be used.
Apply color filter to compare the results or use equation with different balance for each target criteria, then, the chosen one will be the driver that better respect all target regardless individual preferences.
- Fill the colons with the project targets
- Fill the rows with as many drivers as possible (the ones that has potential to achieve targets but not limited to)
- Do simulations for all driver considering the targets/boundaries condition
- Fill the correlation cell with drivers results
Apply color filter to compare the results or use equation with different balance for each target criteria, then, the chosen one will be the driver that better respect all target regardless individual preferences.
I get what you and Kaffimann mean now, I ll look into cabinet sizes tonight (based on wood lumber sizes, WAF ... )
Thanks Paul.
Now you got it Paul.
More specific: Focus on VAS and FS in this case. With these exact drivers (all of them) you *could* have near flat response to fs with a B4 alignment in a closer (not exact) to VAS enclosure.
The Faital drivers will not go so low, and in turn does not require much volume to do so even if you force them. The AE driver demands volume to perform, it is probably a better driver, but it comes with a different set of compromises.
Aatto:
Be happy with your TD15X, build a MUCH bigger box, over 300 liters, and get extension to 10hz. Put on your wicked grin and laugh at the peasants that build the tiny 150 liter version with the Faital drivers.
Kaffimann I appreciate the effort you made, you brought up a very interesting point (and concept) for this project I know some people may feel like we are getting further away from the goal but the way I see it, this is for good of the project, group project always tend to have a lot of discussions, this is just the way it is
and yeah my first intention was to build a 400L w fb of 5Hz, just then I can relax on my throne and judge everybody else
.
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Hi LORDSANSUI.
in the first post I did mention : "Stated goals are not fixed and may change (not drastically) as design team needed."
so far whatever we decided on was based on the feedback, some people actually just keep quiet and turn around instead of saying something
, but what Kaffimann brought up, IMO was a very good point and does not change things drastically, it is just B4 alignment vs Extended (and all the good stuff happening behind the scene), the target F3 hasn't changed much.But I totally agree that the first post explanation and criteria of the project need to be updated, I ll be on it and I appreciate it if anyone can help w that since i m not that technical
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It is a start, first: think fridge to get your head around the format, then: think castle towers with fortifications (maybe your spouse can be convinced to be Queen or Princess? Hidden dream or fetish? Find out what buttons you can push to get thy will done). Maybe get some red velvet and gold trimmings for decoration? Thrones are mandatory.
Maybe we have to choose for a cabinet volume between, 180 L for example. There is a lot of interest in using the Faitals too and 225 L is too large for those drivers.
And a driver combination TD15X – TD8M and Faital 15FH500 (15FH520) – 18Sound 6ND430 (or other 6-8 inch midrange). To come to a more common concept.
And a driver combination TD15X – TD8M and Faital 15FH500 (15FH520) – 18Sound 6ND430 (or other 6-8 inch midrange). To come to a more common concept.
Mordikai,
The same baffle size and making the cabinet only deeper for more volume, will have less effect on the SPL response for one particular woofer.
Anyway two optional woofers do need different X-over.
But I only try to make the global difference between the concepts minimal. Otherwise we are making two speakers in one project. Therefore I mentioned also to find an 8 inch midrange as an alternative for the AE TD8M.
I cannot make the build myself, but I would recommend deeper bass over sensitivity since you are already so high that probably none of the build speakers will play at the max spl. other than a few seconds to impress people on ocations.
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