Consulting this database with indicated targes the options are:
BMS 15N620
BMS 15N630
Beyma 15LX60V2 (the lowest VAS=106L)
Celestion TF1530SL
D.A.S. Audio 15GNR
Eminence KAPPA-15LFA
FaitalPRO 15FH520
LaVoce NBASS15-30
Link for the search results
Loudspeaker Database
BMS 15N620
BMS 15N630
Beyma 15LX60V2 (the lowest VAS=106L)
Celestion TF1530SL
D.A.S. Audio 15GNR
Eminence KAPPA-15LFA
FaitalPRO 15FH520
LaVoce NBASS15-30
Link for the search results
Loudspeaker Database
you see, i was never good at paying attention at school you know
TD15X and TD15H both looks very good. TD15X has better efficiency and both can be tuned really low.
we may go a little over the budget ( well, more than a little ) specially if we go with TD6M as midrange, but we may have to do it.
I vote for TD15X lets see what others think.
yeah both drivers have high FS
.what do you think of AE TD15X that Brett mentioned. I did a quick and dirty sim, and it looks promising, can be done in a 100-130 liter box, not sure if we can hit 92db but we should be close enough and we may need to settle down since it's been going on for a while. it would be over the budget but probably worth it, it's AE, it's for life time
.EDIT: this is from AE website: "The TDX uses a 4 layer flat wire aluminum coil. The BL is slightly higher and mass is slightly lower. They are typically used in vented enclosures where more efficiency is desired." it's 96db. not bad
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thanks man
BMS 15N630 looks good, not sure of the availability tho. that Eminence KAPPA-15LFA I think have been discussed before and this is the closest we can get to what we are looking for ( if i m not mistakin it for another eminence driver )
yeah both drivers have high FS
what do you think of AE TD15X that Brett mentioned. I did a quick and dirty sim, and it looks promising, can be done in a 100-130 liter box, not sure if we can hit 92db but we should be close enough and we may need to settle down since it's been going on for a while.
it would be over the budget but probably worth it, it's AE, it's for life time
Very good driver that one, but I think it is better to increase cabinet volume to about 170 L (??...)
With 130 L the F3 is higher than 40 Hz looking to first simulation.
VB = 170 L tuned at 31 Hz, F3 = 37Hz and F6 = 31 Hz.
Sensitivity full space wil be 90.3 dB. The mentioned 2.83Vrms values on the AE site are correct.
AE TD15X has a maximum excursion of 14 mm peak!
The problem is not finding a good 15", there are many that will suffice.
The problem is finding smaller drivers that are suitable for the goals specified.
I think it will be easier to use 4 x 8" than 2 x 12".
Imo it does not complicate the build significantly to have 2 separate volumes inside the box. There will be less bracing needed.
The problem is finding smaller drivers that are suitable for the goals specified.
I think it will be easier to use 4 x 8" than 2 x 12".
Imo it does not complicate the build significantly to have 2 separate volumes inside the box. There will be less bracing needed.
ok, so i misunderstood you before, IMO 4x8" will have better audience as well.
this look good:
Beyma 8WOOFER/P V2
these will probably do as well:
SB Acoustics SB23NRXS45-8
Scanspeak 22W/8534G00
this look good:
Beyma 8WOOFER/P V2
these will probably do as well:
SB Acoustics SB23NRXS45-8
Scanspeak 22W/8534G00
The last option for 15" I found is the Precision-Device PDN15BR40
Sensitivity: 97dB SPL
Fs: 39,22 Hz
Re: 5,13 ohms
Qms: 10,77
Qes: 0,39
Qts: 0,38
Vas: 140,14 L
Sd: 829,58 cm²
Xmax: 10,5 mm
Le: 0,89 mH
Bl: 19,14 T/m
No: 2,74%
Mms: 112,89 g
Pe: 700 W
Probably sensitivity at the limit and cost out of target
PDN.15BR40
Sensitivity: 97dB SPL
Fs: 39,22 Hz
Re: 5,13 ohms
Qms: 10,77
Qes: 0,39
Qts: 0,38
Vas: 140,14 L
Sd: 829,58 cm²
Xmax: 10,5 mm
Le: 0,89 mH
Bl: 19,14 T/m
No: 2,74%
Mms: 112,89 g
Pe: 700 W
Probably sensitivity at the limit and cost out of target
PDN.15BR40
Important remark with such concept, using 4 woofers in a row is already an array, which becomes directional for higher frequencies.
The directivity is increasing and for the same SPL on axis the power is decreasing.
I have simulated that in the past for 4 x 8 inch and such array becomes already directional above 150 Hz.
Combining such array with a omnidirectional midrange and making the SPL flat on axis will create a power dip above 150 Hz.
4 x 8 inch can be used up to about 120 Hz to keep the power flat, but that is a too low crossover frequency for a midrange.
Not for a 8" like maybe the Faital 8FE200, could probably xo to tweeter at 1600-1800hz?
Edit:
The 10" version, 10FE200 can also work, will look cool with a bigger mid than woofers but then xo probably has to be 1400-1600hz.
Edit2:
And I'd probably get into a flame war for saying this in the Multiway forum, but the Neo magnet 3" "FR" 3FE22 does look like it would work well as a tweeter from that range... And xo for that combo would be quite easy.
Edit:
The 10" version, 10FE200 can also work, will look cool with a bigger mid than woofers
but then xo probably has to be 1400-1600hz.Edit2:
And I'd probably get into a flame war for saying this in the Multiway forum, but the Neo magnet 3" "FR" 3FE22 does look like it would work well as a tweeter from that range... And xo for that combo would be quite easy.
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finding a mid/woofer to cross low should not be a problem. (TD6M will probably do and with 94db).
but for better understanding, what the advantage/disadvantage would be between 4x 8" or a single 15" ? I mean to stay within the expenses limit we probably have to settle down for lower end, lower Qms driver, high quality 8 inch that can go low and have higher sensitivity and overall good parameters would not be cheap.
Do not get me wrong, I m not against it at all, just trying to figure out if we loose anything going that road I mean if the only advantage would be a narrow baffle, maybe ...
but for better understanding, what the advantage/disadvantage would be between 4x 8" or a single 15" ? I mean to stay within the expenses limit we probably have to settle down for lower end, lower Qms driver, high quality 8 inch that can go low and have higher sensitivity and overall good parameters would not be cheap.
Do not get me wrong, I m not against it at all, just trying to figure out if we loose anything going that road
I mean if the only advantage would be a narrow baffle, maybe ...
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You will likely loose something choosing 4 x 8" over a single 15". It may not be quite as "coherent", I think is the closest word.
Also: Everything else will be a little bit more difficult and expensive using 4 x 8" over a single 15". If you want to use 2 x 10" you may not get the desired sensitivity rating. 2 x 12" will work reasonably well, but finding suitable drivers is hard.
Also: Everything else will be a little bit more difficult and expensive using 4 x 8" over a single 15". If you want to use 2 x 10" you may not get the desired sensitivity rating. 2 x 12" will work reasonably well, but finding suitable drivers is hard.
Ok, the goal was to design an speaker that would be easy enough to build, and since using 4x woofers will complicate the design and also it can get pretty expensive real quick I suggest to stick to 15 inch, this will make the baffle wider but will be still considered as "Large Tower" also having 4 woofers in each cabinet will not make it any smaller (narrower but not smaller cabinet).
This has been going on and the more this drags more likely to loose interest.
as for woofer (as been discussed before) one of these will probably do.
Faital Pro 15PR400 (the Humble Homemade Hifi ( forgot his name) chose this over FaitalPRO 15FH520)
Beyma SM-115N
Acoustic Elegance TD15X
I know the AE driver is expensive and will not hit 92db but will be close and will go deeper and it is such a nice driver
my suggestion for mid would be Acoustic Elegance TD6M , Resalable price, well reputation and high sensitivity.
This has been going on and the more this drags more likely to loose interest.
as for woofer (as been discussed before) one of these will probably do.
Faital Pro 15PR400 (the Humble Homemade Hifi ( forgot his name) chose this over FaitalPRO 15FH520)
Beyma SM-115N
Acoustic Elegance TD15X
I know the AE driver is expensive and will not hit 92db but will be close and will go deeper and it is such a nice driver
my suggestion for mid would be Acoustic Elegance TD6M , Resalable price, well reputation and high sensitivity.
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An example, TD6M in 10 L in the monkey box plays 103 dB at 120 Hz,1m at its maximum excursion.
The monkey box woofer can play 112 db at its maximum excursion. So you need 106 dB out of the midrange with an X--over at 120 Hz. Not possible.
So a TD6M in a Monkey box has to be crossed higher than 120 Hz.
Maybe you can find some midranges that can operate at 120Hz, but all on the limit.
For a midrange I prefer a saftey margin of 50 % on its excursion at the maximum excursion of the woofer.
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the distorsion between 4x 8" or a single 15" are equivalent?
Wich one is more sensitivy to T/S parameter dispersion? to proper SPL summation the 4x8" needs to be exactly the same, right?
The 4x 8" in theory can offer better directivity, I mean, wider emission, once the size of the driver are lower compared to a single 15" to reproduce the same frequency in the upper region.
If the XO frequency are higher than 500Hz probably 4x 8" will have comb filtering.
Probabling deciding MID first can help to decide about the BASS, or I'm wrong?
Wich one is more sensitivy to T/S parameter dispersion? to proper SPL summation the 4x8" needs to be exactly the same, right?
The 4x 8" in theory can offer better directivity, I mean, wider emission, once the size of the driver are lower compared to a single 15" to reproduce the same frequency in the upper region.
If the XO frequency are higher than 500Hz probably 4x 8" will have comb filtering.
Probabling deciding MID first can help to decide about the BASS, or I'm wrong?
If they had the same motor system design, they'd be roughly the same.
Crossing relatively low to a mid, they're both going to be about the same.
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