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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Open Source "Tower XL"
Open Source "Tower XL"
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Old 11th October 2018, 02:32 PM   #201
Aatto is offline Aatto  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaffiMann View Post
But I will not argue my point any more, it is wasteful of people's time to read my wall of text raving nonsense. ;-)
it is not a waste of time and you brought up a good point. Now that I have better understanding I agree with your proposal, it certainly works better for a sub application and since we are crossing low this makes sense.

besides as Paul mentioned we can go either way (B4 or extended) in same cab size ( just the port length would be different) and should not effect crossover much. count me in.
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Old 11th October 2018, 02:36 PM   #202
Aatto is offline Aatto  United States
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Originally Posted by Paul Vancluysen View Post
You have a point yes. Maximum SPL and required amplifier power at maximal excursion will be investigated in the concept study, I will do soon.

fB is choosen now 24 Hz (conform Kaffimann's proposal) and 40 Hz for a B4. Maybe there are also more optimal solutions between.
as long as we are running it with normal listening levels it should not be a problem, I did the same thing to my 60w SB acoustic woofer and at normal listening levels you won't notice much excursion, with this pro drivers even at party level we are not pushing the speaker so we should be fine. I can do a quick sim on this.

Edit: saw that you already did it thank you Paul
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Last edited by Aatto; 11th October 2018 at 02:42 PM.
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Old 11th October 2018, 04:23 PM   #203
LORDSANSUI is offline LORDSANSUI  Brazil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aatto View Post
besides as Paul mentioned we can go either way (B4 or extended) in same cab size ( just the port length would be different) and should not effect crossover much. count me in.
Just a small highlight:

Considering the same cab volume, while the por length is increased, at fixed corss section area, the port volume will increase so the Vb in this case needs to be reduced proportionally.

B4: Higher Vb and shorter Port length
Extended: Lower Vb and longer Port length

To respect both, probably Paul will need to pick up the worst case to define cab volume/size.
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Old 11th October 2018, 06:06 PM   #204
Aatto is offline Aatto  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LORDSANSUI View Post
Just a small highlight:

Considering the same cab volume, while the por length is increased, at fixed corss section area, the port volume will increase so the Vb in this case needs to be reduced proportionally.

B4: Higher Vb and shorter Port length
Extended: Lower Vb and longer Port length

To respect both, probably Paul will need to pick up the worst case to define cab volume/size.
thanks that is a good point, although a few liter different is not going to make a significant effect on the response, but we can measure it down and have two different size cabinets if needed.
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Old 11th October 2018, 06:10 PM   #205
John_E_Janowitz is offline John_E_Janowitz  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aatto View Post
AE TD6M reportedly has some unusual dip around 900-1K Hz range, AE stock FR pic shows some dip in that area but apparently people are experiencing even deeper dip, looks like there are some fixes around this but not sure if this changes things or not.
4-Way Series Crossover. Accuton and Acoustic Elegance Drivers
Lambda TD6 tests on the way
Realize the measurement on the left was from a totally different driver, 8 years ago. They were never added to the website and sold only in limited quantity. The TD6M use a different cone material, spider, frame, and coil. This is from the recent production.

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 11th October 2018, 07:54 PM   #206
Aatto is offline Aatto  United States
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hey John,
Yeah that is what we figured since all the bad measurements were from couple years back and since then the basket changed and also haven't seen any recent complains about the dip.
But because of the long waiting time for manufacturer to build each driver we decided to go the other way and start looking somewhere else, I have not updated the first post yet but we have very promising candidates for LF driver same goes for midrange
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Old 11th October 2018, 09:03 PM   #207
John_E_Janowitz is offline John_E_Janowitz  United States
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Hi Paul,

I apologize for not getting to your email sooner. I was out both Monday and Friday last week. That meant trying to squeeze five 10-12 hour days of work into only days and I did not have time to get to many emails. I did get a reply to you now.

Aatto,
a few things to consider regarding the lead times. For about 3 years now I have been running lead times of about 2 weeks on standard woofers. The TD15X and TD6M or TD8M would be within that realm. Right now it is about 10 days. This could of course be affected by a larger OEM order, but I try to still keep some of the smaller quantity DIY orders going out the door while doing larger orders. Typically I stock the TD6M and TD8M. Also if there was demand for the TD15X I could stock a quantity of 6-10 of those as well. I currently stock Dipole15-D16 here.

You will typically find other drivers in stock regularly from the likes of B&C, Faital, BMS, etc at Parts Express or others. However, if there is a shift in demand when introducing a kit like this, it can be very likely that they sell out due to the increased demand and long times in the supply chain. If they go out of stock it could take 3-4 months for the next container to come in. This is chance of a long period of no availability. I buy drivers from Faital for some other systems myself. I recently placed an order at the beginning of June and waited until the end of August for one of their standard 15" drivers and some very common 6" to come in. In the case of the TD woofers, I almost always have the parts in stock so that does not happen. You will also see that the resume for those using the TD and Dipole drivers keeps growing with more and more ultra high-end speakers. Most all of them order on an as needed basis. Because of the short 2 week lead time they don't buy them and stock them directly.
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Old 12th October 2018, 12:05 AM   #208
Aatto is offline Aatto  United States
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Hello John, I heard your name around here but didn't realize you are John from AE

it is good to hear from you here and it certainly encouraging to hear that you have much shorter lead time on your products, AE drivers were our first choice for this project but unfortunately since we did not hear back we went the other way, and also since this project targets more novice builders like me what we read on other forums (long waiting periods) was not what we were expecting, but again hearing from you is certainly encouraging.

unfortunately a lot of effort has been made to find replacement drivers and I m not sure how would others following this project and the design team would feel about changing the course again, this is certainly need to be discussed.

I would like to ask other members following this project to hear their opinion about which direction to go.
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I used to be with it, but then they changed what it was, and now what Im with isnt it. And whats it seems weird and scary to me. - Grandpa Simpsons.

Last edited by Aatto; 12th October 2018 at 12:17 AM.
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Old 12th October 2018, 12:59 AM   #209
LORDSANSUI is offline LORDSANSUI  Brazil
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for the first prototype/proof of concept AE could be a sponsor, this would safe a lot of money and create an ambient to them to show their product advantages.

But if the crowdfunding will pay all stuffs, I'd suggest to choose chipper and more world wide availability option as FaitalPro.
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Old 12th October 2018, 01:44 AM   #210
Aatto is offline Aatto  United States
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I don't expect AE to sponsor a DIY project, also I m not counting on crowdfunding based on what we saw for monkey box funding. but that is cool.

I m not a big fan of changing courses again but we have to keep in mind all of our current options are at same price range, the cheapest one is Ciare and it is around 300$, so i don't think price should be a factor (unless we find something way cheaper, which is very unlikely) we have to see which one fits better
But I agree with you that whatever we go with should be easily available.
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I used to be with it, but then they changed what it was, and now what Im with isnt it. And whats it seems weird and scary to me. - Grandpa Simpsons.

Last edited by Aatto; 12th October 2018 at 02:05 AM.
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