Paul,
What is the intended bandwidth range for the midrange?
I ready that they would be crossed with LF at 500Hz but I also saw mention to 100Hz. For HF I don't rember the upper limit.
The tweeter is frozen or 1" Ti CD can be an option? The Selenium D220 might be flat enought, cheap and has good world wide availability.
$ 49,99 from parts-express
Selenium D220Ti 1" Titanium Horn Driver 8 Ohm 1-3/8"-18
What is the intended bandwidth range for the midrange?
I ready that they would be crossed with LF at 500Hz but I also saw mention to 100Hz. For HF I don't rember the upper limit.
The tweeter is frozen or 1" Ti CD can be an option? The Selenium D220 might be flat enought, cheap and has good world wide availability.
$ 49,99 from parts-express
Selenium D220Ti 1" Titanium Horn Driver 8 Ohm 1-3/8"-18
Aatto,
Technically, an 8 inch has less power above 1 - 1.5kHz than a 6.5 inch. But if the driver has a soft cone breakup, the power is more for higher frequencies. I see that there are off axis responses on the AE site of both drivers. I can calculate the DI of both, it gives some idea already about the power and breakup behavior. I will do that soon. We have to keep in mind that the TD8M sounds better than the TD6M according to John's comments on that. The 18sound 6ND430 has a smooth SPL, I will have a look at it also.
Lordsansui,
With a 15 inch woofer, it is best to cross not too high, around 200Hz probably. It depends also on the midrange choice and the X-over order that is wanted. Crossing with the tweeter around 1.5 - 2.5 kHz, also depending on the midrange size. It is the intention to calculate also the DI out of off axis measurements to be as flat as possible. The Selenium tweeter is new for me.
Technically, an 8 inch has less power above 1 - 1.5kHz than a 6.5 inch. But if the driver has a soft cone breakup, the power is more for higher frequencies. I see that there are off axis responses on the AE site of both drivers. I can calculate the DI of both, it gives some idea already about the power and breakup behavior. I will do that soon. We have to keep in mind that the TD8M sounds better than the TD6M according to John's comments on that. The 18sound 6ND430 has a smooth SPL, I will have a look at it also.
Lordsansui,
With a 15 inch woofer, it is best to cross not too high, around 200Hz probably. It depends also on the midrange choice and the X-over order that is wanted. Crossing with the tweeter around 1.5 - 2.5 kHz, also depending on the midrange size. It is the intention to calculate also the DI out of off axis measurements to be as flat as possible. The Selenium tweeter is new for me.
It's a Titanium Compression Driver (Ti CD) not a tweeter. The links below might interests you and others
Dayton H812 horn + Selenium D220Ti - AmpsLab
FaitalPRO STH100 horn + Selenium D220Ti - AmpsLab
Adited to add one more link
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/178187-waveguide-list.html#post2381932
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Huh, why? I've been designing and building with larger format pro drivers for many years and I see no reason to cross so low. Note I may choose to, but to state it like it's some sort of rule is at best silly.
My AE TD15X (surrounds) cross to a coax at 300Hz and the 15S (mains) at 350Hz. All are sealed and active. The previous JBL 2225/6 3 ways were 300Hz, the last Beyma rig the same.
I've also run 2 ways with a 15 crossing to CD/WG up near 1k with excellent results. There are plenty of others who've done this too.
Ok, maybe the crossing can be higher. I did an estimation to keep the DI flat. I will do the DI calculation, that gives a good view. And indeed also port and internal cabinet resonances have to be damped as much as possible. With a closed box, it is less critical. I am not such favorite to use a less damped BR cabinet of 150 L up to 400Hz. We have to wait for the measurements to take a decision on this all. In the mean time I will do some DI calculations already to discuss further on this.
Something else to consider with regard to the 15" crossover point is that in general, woofers tend to have more harmonic distortion at higher frequencies. Typically larger woofers tend to begin to distort more quickly than smaller woofer as frequency rises. This is of course highly dependent on the driver and it is possible that the drivers we are considering maintain low distortion up relatively high in frequency. Perhaps we can measure distortion on the drivers we select once we have them in hand and factor this in to the crossover point decision? Or maybe we could get these measurements from the manufacturers?
I don't know, but just my personal observation is that typically distortion peaks seem to correlate to breakup modes. There should not be a whole lot of breakup modes around 300hz on a 15" woofer, if it is, then we've chosen the wrong woofer...
Paul: It will depend heavily on port placement. But if built optimally, and using the type of vented box previously discussed, there should be little to no difference between a well designed BR box and a Closed box in the frequency range discussed here.
Paul: It will depend heavily on port placement. But if built optimally, and using the type of vented box previously discussed, there should be little to no difference between a well designed BR box and a Closed box in the frequency range discussed here.
That was my point.
and you are right, a quick look at the TD8M FR shows that it start breaking up around 2Khz, which ain't bad.
18sound 6ND430 is one of the ugliest drivers IMO, but has very good reputation as one of the best mid/bass sounding drivers.
Yes
I think 15FH500 maybe more agile, but this can go on forever so I just let it go
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you can find some measurments for TD15X here
it has a dip around 500Hz and start breaking up around 1K, so it should be fine around 250-300Hz, John mentioned : "When playing upwards of 500hz, the TD15M often becomes the preferred option as the cloth surround has no resonance issue at these points."
it has a dip around 500Hz and start breaking up around 1K, so it should be fine around 250-300Hz, John mentioned : "When playing upwards of 500hz, the TD15M often becomes the preferred option as the cloth surround has no resonance issue at these points."
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I agree, the 6ND430 is a very interesting driver. It has a rubber surround and Xmax = 5mm peak.
They specify 92 dB 1W/1m sensitivity, at 2.83Vrms it is even 93.5dB in half space calculated with TSP. The SPL in the datasheet is a little misleading because it is measured in an enclosure in full space, in a way the SPL under 300 - 400 Hz is lower.
For me this driver is ok.
They specify 92 dB 1W/1m sensitivity, at 2.83Vrms it is even 93.5dB in half space calculated with TSP. The SPL in the datasheet is a little misleading because it is measured in an enclosure in full space, in a way the SPL under 300 - 400 Hz is lower.
For me this driver is ok.
Some questions ...
Concerning the basreflex port
For a Xmax = 14 mm peak (AE TD15X), the port area has to be 228 cm2 for a fB = 24 Hz and 364 cm2 for a fB = 38 Hz (comform R.Small).
In a cabinet of 150 L the port length has to be 93 cm for fB = 24 Hz and port area = 364 cm2.
How to implement this? With a folded port? Or make some compromise?
Concerning the cabinet shape/model.
Are there some concrete ideas? I like to make a first model to do some simulations already.
Is the ATC 100 SCM100 ASL Tower a good example?
Concerning the basreflex port
For a Xmax = 14 mm peak (AE TD15X), the port area has to be 228 cm2 for a fB = 24 Hz and 364 cm2 for a fB = 38 Hz (comform R.Small).
In a cabinet of 150 L the port length has to be 93 cm for fB = 24 Hz and port area = 364 cm2.
How to implement this? With a folded port? Or make some compromise?
Concerning the cabinet shape/model.
Are there some concrete ideas? I like to make a first model to do some simulations already.
Is the ATC 100 SCM100 ASL Tower a good example?
Aatto: Yes. I also like the 15FH500 more, but who cares. If I want some new speakers I want to decide everything myself, this voting and opinion stuff takes too long, a good dictatorship is the way to get things done.
Would love to experience the MonkeyBox and the WTF Tower at some point though.
Paul: So then it's the 6ND430, it seems like an excellent choice. What kind of tweeter are you guys looking at? I guess the Seas H1149-06 27TDC is completely out of the question.
Edit:
I have no time to look at this now Paul, got to do some stuff before sleeping. I did the calculations, hitting xmax of the 15FH500 in about 196watts of real power. It coincided nicely with port air velocity and some other things I like to look at. Have not begun checking out the AE drivers at all.
Would love to experience the MonkeyBox and the WTF Tower at some point though.
Paul: So then it's the 6ND430, it seems like an excellent choice. What kind of tweeter are you guys looking at? I guess the Seas H1149-06 27TDC is completely out of the question.
Edit:
I have no time to look at this now Paul, got to do some stuff before sleeping. I did the calculations, hitting xmax of the 15FH500 in about 196watts of real power. It coincided nicely with port air velocity and some other things I like to look at. Have not begun checking out the AE drivers at all.
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Am lurking but....
AE are lovely things but shipping / import cost spoil them.... what if something happens to one?
More raping by tax man when getting a replacement, so I'd rather have some thing with off the shelf availability in the UK.
There hasn't been a lot of discussion around tweeters yet I believe. Perhaps we should begin by laying out some of our requirements for a tweeter (if we are ready for this stage yet...?). What does everyone think we need to look for in a tweeter for this speaker?
The things that come to my relatively inexperienced mind are highish sensitivity (maybe 94 dB+?), low distortion, and good dispersion. I also personally prefer tweeters with lower Fs so that they can be crossed lower more easily.
Just to give us a starting point, what do people think about these?
Satori TW29DN-B
Satori TW29RN-B
Satori TW29BN-B-8 (also has a 4 ohm version with 95 dB sensitivity 2.38V/1m)
I donno man, i ll peak it for performance but can't get in peace with the looks it would be much better if it was darker not having that redish/purplish tone color price is also right.
we will hopefully have two options of Faital and AE
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