Go Back   Home > Forums > >
Home Forums Rules Articles diyAudio Store Blogs Gallery Wiki Register Donations FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Small active 3-way floor stander with a punch
Small active 3-way floor stander with a punch
Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 6th December 2018, 07:04 PM   #71
jamwat is offline jamwat  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Fab looking speaker, what finish you gonna do ? Spray gloss finish, wrap ?? And what colour ?
I’d change the screws on the back to some low head height screws so they’re more discrete.
  Reply With Quote
Old 6th December 2018, 09:34 PM   #72
GreatLaBroski is offline GreatLaBroski
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Small active 3-way floor stander with a punch
Quote:
Originally Posted by DannerD3H View Post
GreatLaBroski#
I think they sound better than any other speaker i ever had! The bottom end is amazing! never had speakers pushing the 20 Hz so this is a whole new ballgame for me!

I didn't post any measurments yet though, because I am not happy/satisfied with the sound myself just yet.
I have some issues with the midrange and tweeter integration. I hope it is just due to my lack of experience when it comes to measurments and crossovers.. Or my suboptimal measurment enviroment (small livingroom). Not happy with the MW19P performance above 3k (I am crossig at 2K) but not sure if it is only measurable or also audible.
P
Good to hear! Since you're actively crossing them over, you have some opportunities for steeper slopes. Beaming occurs around 2khz-2.1khz with the size of the MW19P-8's. That might be what you're hearing. I'd try a 4th order LR crossover around 1.8khz and see how it sounds; if you have the ability to do that.
  Reply With Quote
Old 7th December 2018, 08:26 AM   #73
DannerD3H is offline DannerD3H  Denmark
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Denmark
Quote:
Originally Posted by jReave View Post
Ok, that made me laugh. Guess you still have a little work left in the shop.

Yup..
When i start projects like theese i think:
"Then i can just work a little on it when i have time and have a great time - hehe"
Then i actually start the project and get so excited and want to se the result NOW. So i spend roughly 120 hours in two months on building one speaker to hear what it will sound like - a "test" cabinet. Just to realize I am only halfway..

Then i get super demotivated to actually finish it..
Luckily this thing looks and sounds really great! so i WILL finish number two. But it will most likely take much longer as i might actually do as planned and just do a little when i have time :P - Until i get close that is of course.. then i will get the same urge to hear the final result!. When i then have two fully functional speakers i might never get around to do the finish xD
  Reply With Quote
Old 7th December 2018, 08:33 AM   #74
DannerD3H is offline DannerD3H  Denmark
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Denmark
Jamwat#
My orginal plan you can see on page 4. All black parts should be Ebonized. The rest should have a clear oil coat or something like that. As you might also be able to see on the images i plan to use black screws with a very low and big head (no need for washers). Also the screws in the top will be hidden by a top plate.

Now though, I kind of really like the light wood color. It doesn't look as heavy and love the contrast with the drivers. So I am devided..

I will finish the second speaker first. Also the side panels. Then I will try to wrap the speaker in something black and put the side panels on top of that. Then i can get a better idea of what I like most..
  Reply With Quote
Old 7th December 2018, 08:46 AM   #75
DannerD3H is offline DannerD3H  Denmark
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Denmark
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatLaBroski View Post
Good to hear! Since you're actively crossing them over, you have some opportunities for steeper slopes. Beaming occurs around 2khz-2.1khz with the size of the MW19P-8's. That might be what you're hearing. I'd try a 4th order LR crossover around 1.8khz and see how it sounds; if you have the ability to do that.

Maybe you can help me with some tips on the crossover?
First I tried LR24 filters on all drivers. Crossing at 80(and 150) and 2000 hz.
I managed to get a very flat response with a steady drop of 8-ish db from 20 to 20kHz. Step response was a mess. Sound was ok but a bit harsch

Now I use this:
S. Harsch XO
That means:
4th order Butterworth on the subs.
2nd order Bessel on the low mid.
2nd order Bessel on the high mid
4th order Butterworth on the Tweeter - Tweeter has reversed polarity.
I cross at 150 and 2000 Hz. Step response is not perfect, but much better than LR24. And the sound is much more calm and comfortable. The frequency response is not as nice as the LR24 but the idea is the same. A 8-ish dB drop from 20 to 20K.

I will post some images of measurements at some point - latest Monday.
But I definitely prefer the sound of the current Harsch version over the all LR24. I have them on each their preset so i can easily compare.

My biggest challenge is where to cut the mid to tweeter.. I have no idea how low my tweeter can go.. I am not sure if what I hear is a strained tweeter or the wired cone breakup from 3K and up on the MW19P.
The tweeter is a Scan Speak R3004/662000. It has a Fs of 520 Hz.
Troels Gravesen use the MW19P up to 1700 Hz only in one of his constructions. It is paired with a SB tweeter with a Fs around 600 I think. So I guess I could do the same? Anyone with experience in crossing the R3004 low?


Tweeter datasheet:
https://www.scan-speak.dk/datasheet/...004-662000.pdf
Mid datasheet:
71/2" SATORI MW19P-4 :: SB Acoustics

Last edited by DannerD3H; 7th December 2018 at 08:50 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 7th December 2018, 08:56 AM   #76
digitalthor is offline digitalthor  Denmark
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Og course we will help on Saturday Going to be a great day Awesome build - looking forward to seeing the details in real life
  Reply With Quote
Old 7th December 2018, 09:34 AM   #77
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
diyAudio Member
 
Juhazi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Jyväskylä, Finland
Yes, I admire Danner's woodworking skills and facilities too!

My routine is to measure intended speaker drivers in a test baffle or box (with intended width), Distance about 40-60cm, dB level about 100dB, use a turntable for off-axis. Then in REW I overlay responses to see directivity. Distortion in lower end is important too. Initial crossover points and slopes are based on this info. For mid /woofer to tweeter xo we are often forced to make a poor compromise between directivity/summing and tweeter's distortion.

When crossover slopes are set, I play only two drivers at the time and check summing of slopes (I use symmetric LR2 or LR4) by looking at step response and summing of normal vs. reversed polarity. When xo is above 1kHz, timing is very delicate - change delay setting in dsp, typically the highpassed driver needs more delay/distance! And around 3-4kHz timing is easily one cycle off. This leads to comb filtering roughly one octave above xo and can be seen as untypical step response, when zoomed generously.

These problems can be ofcourse analyzed and handled with precise measurements in a modern design software, like VituixCAD.
__________________
Radikal aktivist AINOgradient speaker project

Last edited by Juhazi; 7th December 2018 at 10:00 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 7th December 2018, 05:05 PM   #78
jReave is offline jReave  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Danner, I can't remember - have you read Jeff B's papers on measurements and finding acoustic centers? Very, very helpful.
  Reply With Quote
Old 8th December 2018, 04:48 PM   #79
Baldin is offline Baldin  Denmark
diyAudio Member
 
Baldin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Copenhagen
Send a message via MSN to Baldin
Quote:
Originally Posted by DannerD3H View Post
GreatLaBroski#
Not happy with the MW19P performance above 3k (I am crossig at 2K) but not sure if it is only measurable or also audible.
Hi DannerD3H
Looks very good, your build.

What exactly are you not happy about with the MW19P?
One thing I think might be a challenge with your build is the change in dispersion going from the MW19 to the tweeter.

The tweeter is known for a very wide dispersion. a 7½ inch driver will of course begin to beam from ca 1.5 kHz, so the room response will probably be missing some mid power from 1.5 kHz to the crossover point. ..... but this is something one could say about 90% of speakers

But let's see some measurements, also to make sure the crossover is adjusted to the speakers, the delay to the tweeter is right etc.

With these drivers in your lovely enclosure, I'm sure you will be able to tune it to something really amazing.
KR Baldin
__________________
Visit www.sensibleaudio.dk or read latest news on Baldin's Blog
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th December 2018, 01:25 PM   #80
DannerD3H is offline DannerD3H  Denmark
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Denmark
JReave#
I don't think I did. I did now though, I think. Interesting approach! I like that it is not just guessing on the acoustic center. But is there a way to do it without his spreadsheet? or a way to get his spreadsheet?

Baldin#
Thanks!
I heard some speakers this weekend eliminating all my doubts in the MW19P - Great and impressive driver indeed!
However you are right, my biggest issue is going to bee the match between my tweeter and woofer. In fact these drivers might not be the best match.. The woofer likes a low crossover point 1500ish Hz. The tweeter likes a higher 2500+ Hz. But we will see if we cannot make a proper compromise! My quick test this morning looks promising!

I didn't get to do "postable" measurements yet, will try on Wednesday. Then I will spam you with measurements!



One question: How do I know how much resistance is needed in my aperiodic enclosure? Could the Scanspeak vent be generating to much resistance? What will be the symptoms of to much or to little dampening in an aperiodic enclosure?
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Small active 3-way floor stander with a punchHide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
3 way floor stander speaker placement in small room ... help dannyjmf Multi-Way 9 10th September 2018 02:34 PM
Floor Stander MarKen for the A7P? mikejennens Full Range 10 26th February 2018 02:17 PM
Help with floor stander design under $1K hahbs Multi-Way 9 12th December 2016 12:39 PM
Initial thoughts - 3-Way active floor stander as first project... bushmeister Multi-Way 29 14th February 2013 02:41 AM
First DIY Build help. 3-way floor-stander. Elias318 Multi-Way 20 9th June 2012 01:18 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 04:18 AM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Resources saved on this page: MySQL 14.29%
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2018 diyAudio
Wiki