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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

How to measure the loudspeakers actually work as they should?
How to measure the loudspeakers actually work as they should?
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Old 7th September 2018, 09:12 AM   #1
lamir35 is offline lamir35  Israel
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Default How to measure the loudspeakers actually work as they should?

I recently completed a 'Finalists' pair and I'm very happy with the result but I don't have a way to objectively judge them. Is it possible to measure and test them without special equipment?

And another question: people ask me how they can get the same sound from the available options in the market, the Finalists' design seem different than what I see in stores ("open" mid).
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Old 7th September 2018, 09:25 AM   #2
system7 is offline system7  United Kingdom
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Looks a competent design:
Speaker Design Works

If you are fretting that everything is up to standard, you should check you have wired everything up right.

Face the speakers into each other faces and close up and listen to the bass. If you wire one speaker in reverse, the bass will cancel and disappear if those are right.

If the mids are wired wrong, the imaging of voices will sound disembodied and not central. Wrong tweeter phase or polarity is hard to spot. Physically check it. This speaker is wired +-+, so we might hope Jim Holtz knows what he is doing there.

The best test of a speaker is one of your favourite and familiar pieces of music. It should sound good on this three way, and go loud without effort.

Nothing very unusual about this speaker beyond it being a three way. It's a good way to do things. The specialist mid does voices and dispersion off-axis very well at low distortion levels.
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Old 7th September 2018, 11:08 AM   #3
midrange is offline midrange  United Kingdom
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How to measure the loudspeakers actually work as they should?
If you have a another pair of speakers, or could borrow a pair, comparing and contrasting the 2 shows up any strengths and weaknesses much more obviously.

(If you can get a source of pink noise, that will show up any resonances. Also I find listening to spoken voices (particularly male) on the radio shows up colourations much more clearly than music.) But again, much easier to hear when comparing to other speakers.
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Old 7th September 2018, 11:46 AM   #4
system7 is offline system7  United Kingdom
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Alan Shaw at Harbeth always reckons if a speaker can accurately reproduce his daughter's voice, he knows he is getting something right.

This is a fascinating explanation of building a very accurate loudspeaker: YouTube

The BBC had the advantage they could usually compare their monitor sound against live music too, by going into the other room.

I think you have done well to build this speaker. It is a big project, but should give years of pleasure. You could probably put loads of light BAF wadding in the open midrange tunnel to reduce colouration. But it has to be a good way of doing things.

In the long run, as you grow familiar with the whole speaker thing and even some modelling of your own, you might model a 3rd or 4th. order network on the tweeter. They improve distortion even more, IMO. But it's more effort and a popular kit maker tends to keep things simple.
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Last edited by system7; 7th September 2018 at 11:57 AM.
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Old 7th September 2018, 12:29 PM   #5
bentoronto is offline bentoronto  Canada
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How to measure the loudspeakers actually work as they should?
Impedance curves gives the most help for the least effort and test gear.

For listening, a glide tone might be interesting.

B.
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Old 7th September 2018, 12:49 PM   #6
lamir35 is offline lamir35  Israel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midrange View Post
If you have a another pair of speakers, or could borrow a pair, comparing and contrasting the 2 shows up any strengths and weaknesses much more obviously.

(If you can get a source of pink noise, that will show up any resonances. Also I find listening to spoken voices (particularly male) on the radio shows up colourations much more clearly than music.) But again, much easier to hear when comparing to other speakers.
That's a great advice, as system7 noted above our ears should be much better at telling when human voice sounds natural than music which goes through mixing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by system7 View Post
Alan Shaw at Harbeth always reckons if a speaker can accurately reproduce his daughter's voice, he knows he is getting something right.

This is a fascinating explanation of building a very accurate loudspeaker: YouTube

The BBC had the advantage they could usually compare their monitor sound against live music too, by going into the other room.

I think you have done well to build this speaker. It is a big project, but should give years of pleasure. You could probably put loads of light BAF wadding in the open midrange tunnel to reduce colouration. But it has to be a good way of doing things.

In the long run, as you grow familiar with the whole speaker thing and even some modelling of your own, you might model a 3rd or 4th. order network on the tweeter. They improve distortion even more, IMO. But it's more effort and a popular kit maker tends to keep things simple.
I'm baffled... The more BAF the better? Currently there's only a third of the tunnel covered with foam.

Thanks for the link, I'm watching it right now (EDIT: it seems music isn't the best reference).
People asked me to build and sell them the same model, but this was too much work... next time I'll buy a used pair from a user hear and replace the old drivers with new ones...


Quote:
Originally Posted by bentoronto View Post
Impedance curves gives the most help for the least effort and test gear.

For listening, a glide tone might be interesting.

B.
I just listened to a freq sweep, and there are many bumps and dips, every few herz's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by system7 View Post
Looks a competent design:
Speaker Design Works
Thank you for the reply. My hearing isn't good enough to detect distortions and unequal response. I listened to a test recording and in the part where it played the same sound but in the wrong phase on the other channel I could still hear the sound normally. The response also seems to go down to around 50, past which the impact of the bass decreases fast (maybe I should cut from the foam to increase the breathing space?).

Again, it sounds really good to me, but I'm not used to listening to a decent set, and what's in objective terms is a distortion, to the ear used to the flawed set is euphonic.

Last edited by lamir35; 7th September 2018 at 12:58 PM.
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Old 7th September 2018, 01:09 PM   #7
scottjoplin is offline scottjoplin  Wales
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lamir35 View Post
I just listened to a freq sweep, and there are many bumps and dips, every few herz's.
What was the set up?
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Old 7th September 2018, 01:50 PM   #8
wintermute is offline wintermute  Australia
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How to measure the loudspeakers actually work as they should?
Freq sweep in room will likely do so. Do the same sweep outside and you may find it sounds much more even.

Tony.
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Old 7th September 2018, 02:13 PM   #9
midrange is offline midrange  United Kingdom
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How to measure the loudspeakers actually work as they should?
"I just listened to a freq sweep, and there are many bumps and dips, every few herz's."

In a room this is to be expected. Even playing a single tone, you can get substantial variations in measured response, by moving the microphone.
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Old 7th September 2018, 02:21 PM   #10
scottjoplin is offline scottjoplin  Wales
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Who wants to bet he's also playing it through both speakers?
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