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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 8th September 2018, 01:47 PM   #31
jtalden is offline jtalden  United States
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REW unwraps the phase based on the cursor position is when the phase is wrapped. In the charts above it appears the cursor was at 20Hz when the phase was unwrapped.

The desired result should be achieved if the cursor position is nearer the top of the frequency range when the phase is unwrapped. Try 10kHz instead of 20hz.
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Old 8th September 2018, 02:26 PM   #32
DonVK is offline DonVK  Canada
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Thanks, that is a very helpful detail. Thats funny, it appeared random when it was actually me
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Old 9th September 2018, 04:12 AM   #33
wintermute is offline wintermute  Australia
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I tried doing an experiment with the phase unwrapping but couldn't seem to get it. I think I'm missing something!

Tony.
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Old 10th September 2018, 05:38 PM   #34
DonVK is offline DonVK  Canada
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Default Adding a single sub + RPI

Next up, filling in the VLF by adding a single subwoofer (pic#1). I have room modes that are hard to suppress with only 1 sub (pic#2). I can get better (more even) with 2 subs, except I'm short an amp channel until I build in more. I used a PDR10 (built in amp) to start filling in the VLF. Pic#3 show the variation as I move the single sub around (within 1m dia circle). Sounds much better but it needs my other sub (BP6).

Then I moved the EQ and FIR filters over to my RPI3B. It's a headless and wireless media player running Volumio (player), Ecacound (EQ), and Brutefir (FIR). It's currently running its Piano DAC in 2.0 mode so I can use my analog sub bandpass. Attached pic shows light CPU loading on the 4 cores.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSCN5488r.jpg (522.2 KB, 232 views)
File Type: jpg Sub + 3way.jpg (110.6 KB, 233 views)
File Type: jpg Moving 1 sub.jpg (131.6 KB, 222 views)
File Type: jpg RPI3B running EQ + FIR Conv.jpg (350.6 KB, 213 views)

Last edited by DonVK; 10th September 2018 at 05:39 PM. Reason: cores
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Old 17th September 2018, 08:19 PM   #35
DonVK is offline DonVK  Canada
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Default trying a different tweeter, DC28F

After a week of listening its time to change the configuration and try a new tweeter. I did like the previous configuration (TD20F tweeter) and would like to compare it to another (DC28F tweeter) that I have. The DC28F has a large faceplate that I did not remove, and it results in a large 10cm C-C spacing from the midrange.

Pic#1 shows the top slice that was replaced. The new tweeter (DC28F) was EQ'd to flatten it and there's a LR4 template curve @4.5KHz for comparison. I have 2 of these tweeters and they both measure the same. The entire speaker's FR (without sub) measured at 30cm to check the integration. Interestingly, I did not adjust the FIR phase adjustment, I reused the last one, and it came out reasonable looking.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSCN5491r.jpg (559.1 KB, 179 views)
File Type: jpg DC28F near raw, EQ plus LR4 template.jpg (79.6 KB, 62 views)
File Type: jpg with DC28F FR @30cm.jpg (76.5 KB, 44 views)
File Type: jpg with DC28F IR + SR.jpg (73.9 KB, 47 views)
File Type: jpg with DC28F THD.jpg (83.8 KB, 36 views)
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Old 19th September 2018, 06:32 PM   #36
DonVK is offline DonVK  Canada
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Default tweeters compared

I level adjusted and flattened the FR before comparing these tweeters. There is nothing dramatically different between them and both sound good to me. I do think the TD20 is slightly better sounding and only because I can get it closer to the midrange.

I posted a couple of near field waterfalls for these drivers with my XO in place. The first 2 are the drivers with no EQ drivers, and the last one is DC28F with EQ.

I can't extract any insight from them. Except maybe that EQ does not change the underlying resonances in the driver, because the CSD tail is not effected by EQ.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg TD20F near CSD waterfall no EQ.jpg (108.0 KB, 27 views)
File Type: jpg DC28F near CSD waterfall no EQ.jpg (125.0 KB, 25 views)
File Type: jpg DC28F near CSD waterfall with EQ.jpg (100.1 KB, 22 views)
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Old 19th September 2018, 10:39 PM   #37
wintermute is offline wintermute  Australia
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Hi Don, you need to use different settings. the defaults are for room modes. attached are the settings I use to try and get plots like stereophiles.

This was for a dms37 tweeter outside at 1M.

Only put in 25db range from the speaker measurement too.

Tony.
Attached Images
File Type: png DMS37_CSD.png (104.1 KB, 27 views)
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Old 20th September 2018, 02:49 AM   #38
DonVK is offline DonVK  Canada
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OK thanks Tony.

Here are the same graphs with your recommended settings. I'm still not sure what to make of them. I think I need to do more research.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg TD20F near, no EQ.jpg (91.7 KB, 23 views)
File Type: jpg DC28F near, no EQ.jpg (91.5 KB, 22 views)
File Type: jpg DC28F near, with EQ.jpg (92.2 KB, 18 views)
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Old 20th September 2018, 06:18 AM   #39
wintermute is offline wintermute  Australia
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They look pretty good. Change your limits so that lower db is 70 rather than 60. No obvious tesonances present.

Some info here Measuring Loudspeakers, Part Two Page 5 | Stereophile.com

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Last edited by wintermute; 20th September 2018 at 06:24 AM. Reason: Add link to measuring loudspeakers.
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Old 20th September 2018, 04:51 PM   #40
DonVK is offline DonVK  Canada
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Default comparing CSDs

Thanks Tony for the link. I read all 3 parts and a bunch of other stuff and had a look at other tweeter CSDs. My settings are tweaked a bit more [Slices=60, Range=2ms, Window=5ms, Rise=0.2]. All graphs use the same settings and SPL.

I also included the results from a few more tweeters. The TD20 and DC28 look fine. I was surprised at the Paradigm titanium dome because I was expecting better and Mission aluminum dome (repaired) because I was expecting worse.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Ideal LR4@4550Hz CSD.jpg (62.2 KB, 18 views)
File Type: jpg TD20 no EQ CSD.jpg (81.7 KB, 16 views)
File Type: jpg DC28F no EQ CSD.jpg (79.0 KB, 15 views)
File Type: jpg DC28F with EQ CSD.jpg (79.0 KB, 16 views)
File Type: jpg Mission AL Dome - repaired.jpg (95.3 KB, 17 views)
File Type: jpg Paradigm TI Dome.jpg (92.5 KB, 18 views)
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