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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

77Hz Conical, Yuichi A290, Beyma TP-150h project
77Hz Conical, Yuichi A290, Beyma TP-150h project
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Old 28th August 2018, 07:22 AM   #1
kodomo is offline kodomo  Turkey
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Default 77Hz Conical, Yuichi A290, Beyma TP-150h project

I am starting a new project. The components I have chosen are as follows;

bass 20hz to 80hz - sealed direct radiator, if possible servo based (this is for later discussion)
midbass - 80hz to 600hz - 77hz Conical horn
midrange - 600hz - 2.4khz - Yuichi a290
treble - 2.4khz - 20khz - Beyma TPL-150h

For midbass, I have not yet decided on the driver. The candidates are quite different! I will either go with the tried and tested EV EVM-15b or try something new with Project Ryu's field coil f144. If I go with f144s then I will make the midbass horns throat smaller.

For midrange, I will use a radian 850pb, I really like it on my own 200hz round tractrix but I am also wondering if Beyma 850nd would blend better with the Beyma TPL-150h.

I will start with active crossover (I have mini dsp) but I would like to build passive crossover afterwards. It is already physically time aligned, no need to go active just for filters...

Here are the two sections for possible layouts I sketched. The tpl in the middle seems better as that range is better suited at ear height. However, like Living voice, I can put them on top, then the speaker will look more beautiful.

The next thing to do should be hornresp simulations. Stefan from Project Ryu already simulated his driver in 77hz conical (see below). It looks great to me! The ev evm15l model (not the evm 15b but very similar) is already simulated on volvotreter 77hz by Eric Forker (see below, simulation is taken from Eric's audioasylum thread). The tpl does not need one. So actually only the yuichi a290 with the Radian and Beyma 850 simulations are left.

I am open to any criticisms and suggestions.

ps. I already have a great 5 way horn system, this is just taking another shot as I love building and would like to hear a relatively more compact good horn system could do. I also would like to build a nice looking speaker cosmetically...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 3wayhornTOP.jpg (402.7 KB, 505 views)
File Type: jpg 3wayhornMID.jpg (448.7 KB, 500 views)
File Type: png 39526375_1535956076505679_5943823722178674688_n.png (27.8 KB, 494 views)
File Type: jpg 77hz_conical_resp.jpg (39.3 KB, 491 views)
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Old 4th October 2018, 10:23 AM   #2
kodomo is offline kodomo  Turkey
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I have found a good connection with a Beyma dealer and may go full Beyma.

A beyma 15p80nd with the conical midbass (80 to 500/600)
A beyma cp-850nd for the yuichi horn (500/600 to 2500/3000)
Keeping the Beyma TPL150h (2500/3000+)

Can anyone simulate the beyma 15p80nd with the volvotreter 77hz conical horn with hornresp? The thiele small parameters for the driver are;

Fs 33 Hz
Re 5.1 ohm
Qms 7.7
Qes 0.182
Qts 0.178
Vas 250 l
Cms 229 m / N
Rms 2.73 kg/s
Efficiency %4.77
Sd 0.088 m
Xmax 7.5 mm
Vd 660 cm
Le@1 kHz 0.8 mH
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Old 4th October 2018, 11:17 AM   #3
kodomo is offline kodomo  Turkey
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Ok, I made the old hornresp work on my office mac so no need for help on simulations

Here are the results, they look ok to me! please check if anything you see is out of ordinary;
Attached Images
File Type: jpg splbeyma77conical.jpg (97.5 KB, 397 views)
File Type: jpg parametersbeyma77conical.jpg (167.3 KB, 77 views)
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Old 4th October 2018, 11:32 AM   #4
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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Keep in mind this is the power response.
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Old 5th October 2018, 02:21 AM   #5
Flaesh is offline Flaesh  Russian Federation
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And 0.5pi.
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Old 5th October 2018, 05:31 AM   #6
kodomo is offline kodomo  Turkey
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@AllenB
Yes, but that is what I am checking out to see if this driver would work with this horn for my given criteria. Impedance does not seem problematic and I use impedance correction on crossover. So, power response is the first thing I check, if I already know and like the sound of the driver. It looks like it can work for 80hz-500hz.


@Flaesh
Here is 1 pi, quarter space response

So, as the beyma 850nd is ok for a 500hz crossover and can work down to those frequincies with the yuichi 290, it seems, the new crossover points will be 80/500/3000
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File Type: jpg 1pi77hzbeyma15nd.jpg (97.1 KB, 41 views)
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Old 9th October 2018, 08:44 AM   #7
kodomo is offline kodomo  Turkey
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While talking to the Beyma dealer about this project, he recommended me the tpl200h. The reason was the high efficiency and more power handling. I guess I do not need more power handling than the tpl150h but 3db to 4db more efficiency would be welcome. The rest of the system can match this. The speaker system can be 104db efficient (except for the seperate bass part)

Are there any downsides using a tpl200h instead of the tpl150h?
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Old 9th October 2018, 10:52 AM   #8
Zvu is offline Zvu  Serbia
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Here are measurements for it:

Test Bench: Acustica Beyma TPL200/H Pro Sound Air Velocity Transformer | audioXpress
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Old 10th October 2018, 06:29 AM   #9
kodomo is offline kodomo  Turkey
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Thanks, i decided to go with the TPL200h and will also be changing the woofers 1580nd to 1580fe, the ferrite version of the same driver. It does not have the dip around 375hz nd has and is a little more efficient.

It seems the 850nd can be pushed to 450hz at home too. So 80/450/3600 seems to be the starting point for my crossover.
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Old 10th October 2018, 09:35 AM   #10
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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77Hz Conical, Yuichi A290, Beyma TP-150h project
JBL's old M151 bass guitar speaker looks to be a good fit for that horn

https://i.imgur.com/qv3u42e.jpg
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