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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 28th July 2018, 01:21 PM   #11
PSchut is offline PSchut  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mortron View Post
Those look great. I am also curious about those ceiling speakers for atmos you made, any more info?
Yes indeed, two Beyma 5MP60N 16 Ohm and the same Scan Speak tweeter as in the upfiring unit. The Scan-Speak D2608-91300.
The crossover is also a 2nd order LR at 3500 Hz.
The upfiring needs a special notch filter according to Atmos specification.

Last edited by PSchut; 28th July 2018 at 01:24 PM.
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Old 28th July 2018, 03:52 PM   #12
flancfuster is offline flancfuster  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSchut View Post
I would like to keep the details to myself for now with months of tweaking and listening.
The filter is a normal 3 way second order LR design.
Crossover frequencies of 230 Hz and 2800 Hz
A small eq lifts the tweeter response. (expensive with Mundorf Supreme Silver Gold Oil capacitors in that part of the filter.


The frequency response below is left and right in the room measured at 1 meter distance on tweeter height. The little bump at 1,1 kHz has always been present in both the large and 2 way speaker. It sonically never bothered as measured in the listening position it is gone. Something to do with the d'Appolito arrangement. The frequency has a wavelength of exactly the the distance of the two midrange units.
The dip at 230 Hz is the error of the mic being at tweeter position and is gone when the mic is placed between LF and MF.

Below 300 Hz the frequency response alters with every different setup, distance of walls and so on, and is therefor not Representative but it says something about how low this speaker goes.

Here the second graph tells something. This is a near field measurement as shown in a picture above. The mic a few cm from the cone. The top red curve is with just the 2nd order HP filter. The green lower graph is with a notch filter added to dampen the second resonance peak and this little tweak made the LF sound so much better. more control and it was as if it reached deeper.


Of course do you like your self made speaker, I made many and I always loved them ...... at first. Then the first issues arrive. You hear imperfections, things that are not ideal and so on.
With this speaker this did not happen, and now 3 months since the last tweak, and 5 months since they first made sound they sound better and better.
I went to some shows, friends and shops to verify if I was critical enough and ...... nothing yet comes close. Speakers ranging from €10k to €125k outperform them in more than 1 aspect.
And my front-end can be improved .....
Measurements looks great, in what way the upward firing drivers influences the sound? What are the improvements in your opinion?
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Old 28th July 2018, 04:24 PM   #13
PSchut is offline PSchut  Netherlands
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Originally Posted by flancfuster View Post
Measurements looks great, in what way the upward firing drivers influences the sound? What are the improvements in your opinion?
The upfiring speaker removes a few liter from the total volume. So in theory a slightly different tuning and the top speaker has less room to breathe.
We didn't compare my friends two way with my surround. He used the top filter components and I used less expensive ones as it is "just" surround.

But for the best stereo only experience I would not include the upfiring.

For me it was different as I wanted to get visually the same speakers as the big fronts and get a similar tuning by using the same drivers.

Hope this answers your question
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Old 28th July 2018, 04:38 PM   #14
Lojzek is offline Lojzek  Croatia
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Congratulations on a project you are satisfied with! Would it be too much to ask what the total parts cost of a stereo pair was, not counting work hours?
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Old 28th July 2018, 05:06 PM   #15
PSchut is offline PSchut  Netherlands
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Originally Posted by Lojzek View Post
Congratulations on a project you are satisfied with! Would it be too much to ask what the total parts cost of a stereo pair was, not counting work hours?
The front speakers costed approximately €12.000. This includes the outsourcing of the CNC work.
If I would have just built the fronts it would have been more.
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Old 28th July 2018, 05:17 PM   #16
PSchut is offline PSchut  Netherlands
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I think I need to explain something about this project.
I have made 7 speakers in total that are powered by 9 amps (well 11 to be exact, as I am bi-amping the fronts)
The 3 way 5 speaker fronts
The 2 way 3 speaker surrounds that include a 2 way built-in Atmos upfiring
The 2 way 3 speaker ceiling speaker
A 3 way 4 speaker center speaker
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Old 28th July 2018, 08:05 PM   #17
Cal Weldon is offline Cal Weldon  Canada
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Very nice. Very nice indeed. Congratulations.
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Old 28th July 2018, 08:30 PM   #18
wolf_teeth is offline wolf_teeth  United States
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Nicely done! You should be proud.

Later,
Wolf
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Old 28th July 2018, 10:20 PM   #19
zman01 is offline zman01  Bangladesh
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PSchut,

Great attention to detail and very impressive end result. Congratulations!
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Old 29th July 2018, 01:23 AM   #20
LineSource is offline LineSource  United States
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One of THE BEST HT speaker design & construction posts I have seen.
-polar directivity response best suited to your HT listening
-top ranked individual drivers
-design and construct cabinets with low diffraction and vibration
-conquer cost and complexity required for passive crossovers
-measurements at listening room seating position
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