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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Dunlavy SC IV schematics ?
Dunlavy SC IV schematics ?
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Old Yesterday, 01:35 PM   #81
mark100 is offline mark100  United States
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Dunlavy SC IV schematics ?
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Originally Posted by AllenB View Post
Is this because the steepness can result in significant group delay?
Sure, but not can result, ...it will result.....if xovers are passive or active IIR.

Imho, the significant group delay from using steep passive or IIR active xovers, is why so many people shun their sound, and prefer low order.....
....Mr Dunlavy being one of them. I bet he would have loved to play with FIR and linear phase xovers.
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Old Yesterday, 02:29 PM   #82
mickiboi007 is offline mickiboi007  Australia
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Originally Posted by Scottmoose View Post
'ain't that the truth. Although if I see one more company marketing spiel including the phrase 'designed without compromise'...
I had a 1000 bucks to spend. I spent it. I didn't compromise
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Old Yesterday, 02:57 PM   #83
mickiboi007 is offline mickiboi007  Australia
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Originally Posted by Scottmoose View Post
Very true -he would. But from an operational & listening POV it ultimately comes down to how much you care about whether it's nominally a linear phase speaker or not. Some do, some don't. For e.g., I can take it or leave it -I simply can't hear the huge advantages that are sometimes claimed. Clearly others can; fair enough. It's just not a universal guide to quality. For some it might even be the opposite in certain situations -say, if power-handling & dynamic range is their focus, since linear-phase designs by nature tend to be more demanding on the tweeter's low end distortion performance, which may (may) place them at a disadvantage compared to an alternative. YMMV as always.

There is a difference.

Have a look at my thread for a 4 way active here. Large 4 way using Active Crossovers

The Ultimate Preamp allows me to put whatever crossover I want into it. It allows me to compare apples for apples. Same drivers different xover. I use 1st order just like Mr Dunlavy did for the same reason. When I go to 2nd, 3rd,nth order, you can clearly hear difference. I think this is one of the hardest things to hear since no manufacture makes a passive speaker using the same drivers with different order xovers, so it does make it hard to compare because of how different all these speakers, rooms etc sound. I have done this test many times with friends, had them listen to the same song using different order xovers. They all agreed there is a difference and all had the same opinion of the overall sound. The 1st order sounds better. I can now put a song on when they come over and they can immediately tell I'm messing with their heads and tell me to change it back.

Unless you can compare without delay the same song in the same room on the exact same pair of loudspeakers, its very difficult. But their is a difference.

Everyone who I do this to say about the 1st order, the sound is more enveloping, it surrounds your head more. To me that is sound stage. They all agree as you go higher order the characteristics of each the individual drivers come through. You are no longer listening to the music you are now listening to the drivers, the speakers lose their blendedness, if their is such a word. You really have to hear for yourself.

JD did everything right. If you want to get rid of your passive xover, go active, JD would be happy to see you do that.
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Old Yesterday, 03:09 PM   #84
Scottmoose is offline Scottmoose  United Kingdom
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Originally Posted by mickiboi007 View Post
I had a 1000 bucks to spend. I spent it. I didn't compromise
Right, that's it, I'm getting the blunderbuss.

Re the above -I don't doubt you've found that. I am simply stating a fact however: not everybody is that fussed about linear-phase / transient perfect designs, myself included. I simply don't hear the huge advantages that are sometimes touted for them, leading me to the conclusion that these are often overstated and my own priorities lie elsewhere. Which doesn't change the fact that the Dunlavy designs were excellent (if a mite demanding on the tweeter at higher levels ).
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Last edited by Scottmoose; Yesterday at 03:19 PM.
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Old Today, 02:00 AM   #85
mickiboi007 is offline mickiboi007  Australia
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Not disagreeing with you one bit Scott. I just wish everybody could come and listen to mine and see what difference time alignment and crossover order make to the sound. Being able to change any parameter instantly and hear the result is something we could have only dreamed about years ago. The human ear is an amazing thing. You wouldn't think the ear could discern 10uSec. When I remove the time alignment and then put it back 10uSec is clearly audible.

Thats the beauty of the active preamp. No distortion or blown tweeters no matter how high you turn the volume up. Johns Magnus would have been a reality by now if he were still here.

Its a testament to his brilliance that 15 years after the last pair of DAL rolled off the line that they are still so revered. I know he would be thrilled that we still talk about his work and his life.

Last edited by mickiboi007; Today at 02:22 AM.
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Old Today, 02:38 AM   #86
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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Dunlavy SC IV schematics ?
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Originally Posted by mark100 View Post
....Mr Dunlavy being one of them. I bet he would have loved to play with FIR and linear phase xovers.
Perhaps. I'd also consider him capable of not requiring them, in the context of the kind of speakers he prefers. In addition could a steep filter cause an abrupt transition when bringing together two ways that are not well matched, such as to cause bad sound that a more shallow filter might reduce?
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Old Today, 03:59 AM   #87
mickiboi007 is offline mickiboi007  Australia
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Originally Posted by mickiboi007 View Post
I had a 1000 bucks to spend. I spent it. I didn't compromise
just to clarify my speakers cost a hell of a lot more than 1000 to build. Add another zero.
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Old Today, 04:54 AM   #88
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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Dunlavy SC IV schematics ?
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Originally Posted by mickiboi007 View Post
Being able to change any parameter instantly and hear the result is something we could have only dreamed about years ago.
It just took a little longer. Gave us a certain appreciation for things.
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