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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

horn, bandpass, horn, synergy?
horn, bandpass, horn, synergy?
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Old 4th July 2018, 05:40 AM   #1
fotsinijts is offline fotsinijts
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Default horn, bandpass, horn, synergy?

So once in a while I visit the Danley Soundlabs site, and this time I discovered the new J6-42.

Consisting of 8x10" bass 8x6.5" mid and 8x1.4" high it's again a wonder how they packed it in one horn.

In the youtube video you can see the bass speakers being horn loaded bud then going in to a bandpass port to enter the same horn as the mids and highs. If you look closely there even could fit another layer of horn between the visible horn (were the mids and highs go into) and the space of the cabinet.

YouTube

So are we looking at a horn becoming a bandpass becoming a horn? I made a drawing to show what I think is going on, but what do you guys think?
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File Type: png Screen Shot 2018-07-04 at 07.37.24.png (278.2 KB, 614 views)
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Old 4th July 2018, 05:57 AM   #2
wonderfulaudio is online now wonderfulaudio  India
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Probably the "BASS ENTRY PORT" is not doing any acoustic bandpass since the bass would be low passed in crossover itself. Even if it did, it seems to serve two other purposes as well, a) ports take a small real estate inside the main waveguide/horn and thus interferes less with mid/high wavefront b) it gives point source behaviour which is important for intelligibility at large distances when windy. Both of these are high in priority in Danley products.

The bass horn increases the loading, ie for same cone excursion there is more SPL. When loads of amplifier power is available huge SPL can be produced before reaching xmax.

Wondering what the slots are, where the CD is mounted
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Old 4th July 2018, 06:03 AM   #3
fotsinijts is offline fotsinijts
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But still I am a bit confused over narrowing the horn "in the middle" and letting it extend again and although the bass would be low passed in the crossover there still is a bandpass right? Maybe to get distortion down.

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Wondering what the slots are, where the CD is mounted
Check the video, that's the paraline way I think of coupling the drivers.
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Old 4th July 2018, 07:03 AM   #4
wonderfulaudio is online now wonderfulaudio  India
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fotsinijts View Post
Check the video, that's the paraline way I think of coupling the drivers.
I meant the radial slots

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Originally Posted by fotsinijts View Post
But still I am a bit confused over narrowing the horn "in the middle" .
The main horn doesnt seem to have any narrowing. It starts with 2 CDs that are in a non tapered tube, they meet where the main horn starts
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Old 4th July 2018, 03:22 PM   #5
Patrick Bateman is offline Patrick Bateman  United States
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I love reverse-engineering stuff, so here's my take on it:

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

First off, I think the most interesting thing about the J6 is that it appears to use a simple diffraction slot for the high frequencies. The literature says:

"An improved version of the paraline combiner allows for the summation of eight high frequency drivers while maintaining seamless phase alignment of all 24 speakers

Click the image to open in full size.

So my guess is that there are eight Eminence N314T-8s at the throat.

horn, bandpass, horn, synergy?

If it IS an Eminence, the reason that Danley selected it may have to do with it's very high displacement. The BMS 4552 that's used in other Jerichos has a minimum xover point of 1khz, while the N314T8 can be crossed over at 800Hz.
horn, bandpass, horn, synergy?

For comparison's sake, here's the response of the BMS 4552. It's very loud and pretty smooth, but it has virtually no output below 800Hz. That's because it's a ring radiator; they fundamentally have less displacment.

Another cool thing about the Eminence is that it's rolloff is pretty shallow, particularly for a compression driver. BMS shares this trait and it makes it WAY easier to get a Synergy xover correct.

horn, bandpass, horn, synergy?


To figure out what the midrange is, you'd need to see if it's truncated or not. if it isn't, it's probably the Eminence Alpha-6CBMRA. The Danley SH-50 uses four of the Celestion TF0410MRs. The Alpha6 has about as much displacement as TWO of the Celestions, but it's power handling is more than triple. So if you can keep the excursion under control, a single one of the Alphas can come close to replicating the performance of the entire midrange array on an SH50.

Trying to figure out what the 10" woofers are would basically require a peek at the basket.

Last edited by Patrick Bateman; 4th July 2018 at 03:27 PM.
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Old 4th July 2018, 03:34 PM   #6
Patrick Bateman is offline Patrick Bateman  United States
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Click the image to open in full size.

As far as the bass alignment, let me fire up Hornresp and test a theory:

If you read JBL's literature on the ideal port, the data seems to indicate that performance is largely dicateted by the size of the throat and the mouth. In other words, you can get away with quite a narrow diameter in the center of a port.

So what may be going on here is that the "center" of the port for those 10" woofers is the woofer taps. If so, then the woofer alignment is some type of single reflex bandpass. The "throat" of the port is the volume of air behind the horn walls, the "center" of the port is the woofer taps, and the "mouth" of the port is actually the mouth of the horn. So basically the horn is behaving like a giant woofer port.

Keep in mind that the woofer alignment in the SH50 is basically a dual reflex bandpass, so going bandpass for the woofers isn't unusual here.
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Old 4th July 2018, 03:58 PM   #7
1audiohack is offline 1audiohack  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
...The Danley SH-50 uses four of the Celestion TF0410MRs...
Not to nitpick but thats not what are in mine.

Love your work Patrick!
Barry.
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Old 4th July 2018, 04:14 PM   #8
Patrick Bateman is offline Patrick Bateman  United States
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Interesting, I wonder why they changed?

Danley himself clued me in to the Celestion here: Another Unity Horn
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Old 4th July 2018, 07:35 PM   #9
martinsson is offline martinsson  Sweden
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Quote:
Trying to figure out what the 10" woofers are would basically require a peek at the basket.
They look ridiculously similar to FatialPro 10HP1020, which could also explain the rather aggressive compression ratio, the 10HP1020 are without equal in toughness in the 10" category, as far as I know at least.

I should recognize them fairly well, I just happen to have two of them in my THAM10's

FaitalPRO | LF Loudspeakers | 10HP1020
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Old 4th July 2018, 07:39 PM   #10
weltersys is offline weltersys  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wonderfulaudio View Post
Wondering what the slots are, where the CD is mounted
My guess is the radial slots in the blue aluminum Paraline plates increase their exposed radiating area, which makes for a more effective heat sync.
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Last edited by weltersys; 4th July 2018 at 08:00 PM.
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