horn, bandpass, horn, synergy?

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So once in a while I visit the Danley Soundlabs site, and this time I discovered the new J6-42.

Consisting of 8x10" bass 8x6.5" mid and 8x1.4" high it's again a wonder how they packed it in one horn.

In the youtube video you can see the bass speakers being horn loaded bud then going in to a bandpass port to enter the same horn as the mids and highs. If you look closely there even could fit another layer of horn between the visible horn (were the mids and highs go into) and the space of the cabinet.

YouTube

So are we looking at a horn becoming a bandpass becoming a horn? I made a drawing to show what I think is going on, but what do you guys think?
 

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Probably the "BASS ENTRY PORT" is not doing any acoustic bandpass since the bass would be low passed in crossover itself. Even if it did, it seems to serve two other purposes as well, a) ports take a small real estate inside the main waveguide/horn and thus interferes less with mid/high wavefront b) it gives point source behaviour which is important for intelligibility at large distances when windy. Both of these are high in priority in Danley products.

The bass horn increases the loading, ie for same cone excursion there is more SPL. When loads of amplifier power is available huge SPL can be produced before reaching xmax.

Wondering what the slots are, where the CD is mounted :confused:
 
I love reverse-engineering stuff, so here's my take on it:

690121d1530682794t-horn-bandpass-horn-synergy-screen-shot-2018-07-04-07-24-08-png


gPxAsou.jpg


First off, I think the most interesting thing about the J6 is that it appears to use a simple diffraction slot for the high frequencies. The literature says:

"An improved version of the paraline combiner allows for the summation of eight high frequency drivers while maintaining seamless phase alignment of all 24 speakers

OpenEminenceNewComprDrivers.jpg


So my guess is that there are eight Eminence N314T-8s at the throat.

N314T8-1-f-size-475.gif

If it IS an Eminence, the reason that Danley selected it may have to do with it's very high displacement. The BMS 4552 that's used in other Jerichos has a minimum xover point of 1khz, while the N314T8 can be crossed over at 800Hz.
bms_4552nd_curves.jpg

For comparison's sake, here's the response of the BMS 4552. It's very loud and pretty smooth, but it has virtually no output below 800Hz. That's because it's a ring radiator; they fundamentally have less displacment.

Another cool thing about the Eminence is that it's rolloff is pretty shallow, particularly for a compression driver. BMS shares this trait and it makes it WAY easier to get a Synergy xover correct.

Alpha-6CBMRA-back-size250.gif


To figure out what the midrange is, you'd need to see if it's truncated or not. if it isn't, it's probably the Eminence Alpha-6CBMRA. The Danley SH-50 uses four of the Celestion TF0410MRs. The Alpha6 has about as much displacement as TWO of the Celestions, but it's power handling is more than triple. So if you can keep the excursion under control, a single one of the Alphas can come close to replicating the performance of the entire midrange array on an SH50.

Trying to figure out what the 10" woofers are would basically require a peek at the basket.
 
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As far as the bass alignment, let me fire up Hornresp and test a theory:

If you read JBL's literature on the ideal port, the data seems to indicate that performance is largely dicateted by the size of the throat and the mouth. In other words, you can get away with quite a narrow diameter in the center of a port.

So what may be going on here is that the "center" of the port for those 10" woofers is the woofer taps. If so, then the woofer alignment is some type of single reflex bandpass. The "throat" of the port is the volume of air behind the horn walls, the "center" of the port is the woofer taps, and the "mouth" of the port is actually the mouth of the horn. So basically the horn is behaving like a giant woofer port.

Keep in mind that the woofer alignment in the SH50 is basically a dual reflex bandpass, so going bandpass for the woofers isn't unusual here.
 
Trying to figure out what the 10" woofers are would basically require a peek at the basket.
They look ridiculously similar to FatialPro 10HP1020, which could also explain the rather aggressive compression ratio, the 10HP1020 are without equal in toughness in the 10" category, as far as I know at least.

I should recognize them fairly well, I just happen to have two of them in my THAM10's :)

FaitalPRO | LF Loudspeakers | 10HP1020
 
They look ridiculously similar to FatialPro 10HP1020, which could also explain the rather aggressive compression ratio, the 10HP1020 are without equal in toughness in the 10" category, as far as I know at least.

I should recognize them fairly well, I just happen to have two of them in my THAM10's :)

FaitalPRO | LF Loudspeakers | 10HP1020

I agree, they sure do look like 10HP1020's. The soon-to-be-released Beyma 10MC700ND is going to be up there as well.
uc
 
690122d1530682794-horn-bandpass-horn-synergy-screen-shot-2018-07-04-07-37-24-png


As far as the bass alignment, let me fire up Hornresp and test a theory:

If you read JBL's literature on the ideal port, the data seems to indicate that performance is largely dicateted by the size of the throat and the mouth. In other words, you can get away with quite a narrow diameter in the center of a port.

So what may be going on here is that the "center" of the port for those 10" woofers is the woofer taps. If so, then the woofer alignment is some type of single reflex bandpass. The "throat" of the port is the volume of air behind the horn walls, the "center" of the port is the woofer taps, and the "mouth" of the port is actually the mouth of the horn. So basically the horn is behaving like a giant woofer port.

Keep in mind that the woofer alignment in the SH50 is basically a dual reflex bandpass, so going bandpass for the woofers isn't unusual here.

Ah I understand, I thought there was some kind of horn before the port, but that is probable just some volume for the single reflex bandpass.
 
Could the folded section be the port for the 4th order bandpass? I am facing a similar problem with my synergy project, as the woofer needs a 30cm long port with 200cm2 area to get a suitable frequency response. I am looking at folding this port and ending up with a very similar arrangement. I am assuming/hoping (!) that even if the exit end of the port is partially obstructed (as the exit holes are not equal to the full port area), this will be ok so long as the holes are big enough to ensure velocity of the air in the holes is not too high. Please let me know if my assumption is not correct :confused:
 
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We are not far from it

So once in a while I visit the Danley Soundlabs site, and this time I discovered the new J6-42.

Consisting of 8x10" bass 8x6.5" mid and 8x1.4" high it's again a wonder how they packed it in one horn.

In the youtube video you can see the bass speakers being horn loaded bud then going in to a bandpass port to enter the same horn as the mids and highs. If you look closely there even could fit another layer of horn between the visible horn (were the mids and highs go into) and the space of the cabinet.

YouTube

So are we looking at a horn becoming a bandpass becoming a horn? I made a drawing to show what I think is going on, but what do you guys think?


I think you are pretty close : look at the grooves in the wood on the top and bottom panels : It looks like a regular horn feeding the holes on the main horn.
What I find interesting is that this new layout increases the ration of compression drivers to the total number of drivers in the enclosure = more high end capacity in a smaller box. In fact Danley's last inventions like the paraline and the layered combiner aim at cramming more compression drivers in a single horn. I think we may hold something :D.


An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
 
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