Go Back   Home > Forums > >
Home Forums Rules Articles diyAudio Store Blogs Gallery Wiki Register Donations FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Questions about speaker building
Questions about speaker building
Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 3rd July 2018, 01:51 PM   #21
Borus is offline Borus  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: east cost
Yes what andreasmaaan said.
Lets get some terminology right first. The driver that outputs the lower sounds in a 3 way speaker is a woofer. In a 2 way speaker it is called a mid/bass. The driver in a 3 way speaker that outputs the voices and the majority of the music in the middle range is called a mid-range. The driver that outputs the higher female voice and the screaming aspects of guitar, saxophone and the shimmer of cymbals is called a tweeter. If even higher notes are wanted a driver can be used called a super tweeter. If truly lower notes or rumbling of explosions/thunder are needed than a driver known as a sub-woofer can be used but these last two do not replace the normal woofer or tweeter they augment them.
Now in your 3 way for fun and learning you would want a 12" woofer. Although a 10" at a good price should be considered. A mid-range driver of between 6"-4" should work well go for the best price. It will need to be enclosed this will take up some of the room inside the box used for the woofer. Think simple the cover of an old CD reel or a piece of PVC pipe. Then the tweeter can be had for under $10 from almost anywhere. For your experiment look into car sound systems as many used ones can be had. They will be 4ohm and will play loader with less amplification. The crossover can be done by you with just winding the wires together. Two capacitors and two coils. One coil (wire wrapped around a large bolt 2 or 3 hundred times) for the woofer. One large capacitor (non-polarized somewhere near 150 micro-farads) and a smaller coil wire wrapped around a small wood dowel 80 or 90 times. Then a small capacitor 3-4 micro-farads for the tweeter. Build a box out of plywood glued about one foot square and two feet high. Then while listening to these speakers read up on these pages on how to make them better. They will be good enough to give you a win and show you that you can do this.
For those reading this and disagreeing see my signature.
__________________
"Ya but what does he know anyhow"
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd July 2018, 02:56 PM   #22
WillHoog is offline WillHoog  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
I understand the recommendation to switch to a simpler choice but I knew I couldn't just plan to build massive tower speakers and buy parts a week later. There are a couple other things I need to buy for my studio so I am giving myself months for this project. If a slight change in budget is needed I could do that since my birthday is October(I could get more quality drivers then). I also am looking just to listen to music loudly with these, I already have quality studio monitors for mixing.

This is now what I'm currently confused about

1. After I get a frequency response, what do I do next with the crossover to make it better?

2. Do you have any recommended videos or sites to learn about the enclosure because YouTube hasn't been so clear

3. Do you have any recommended companys to get drivers from? ($50 to $150 each) And where would I get all the info about the speaker

5. Does a piezo mean having the wide dispersion thing?

Last edited by WillHoog; 3rd July 2018 at 03:03 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd July 2018, 03:20 PM   #23
andreasmaaan is offline andreasmaaan
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillHoog View Post
I understand the recommendation to switch to a simpler choice but I knew I couldn't just plan to build massive tower speakers and buy parts a week later. There are a couple other things I need to buy for my studio so I am giving myself months for this project. If a slight change in budget is needed I could do that since my birthday is October(I could get more quality drivers then). I also am looking just to listen to music loudly with these, I already have quality studio monitors for mixing.

This is now what I'm currently confused about

1. After I get a frequency response, what do I do next with the crossover to make it better?

2. Do you have any recommended videos or sites to learn about the enclosure because YouTube hasn't been so clear

3. Do you have any recommended companys to get drivers from? ($50 to $150 each) And where would I get all the info about the speaker

5. Does a piezo mean having the wide dispersion thing?
All good questions

1. Once you have measured (a) the frequency response and (b) impedance response of each of the drivers in the box (see below), you can use calculators or software to create a simple crossover network consisting of capacitors, resistors and inductors.

I suggest entering your measurements into Jeff Bagby's Passive Crossover Designer and using that to determine how to build the crossover.

Then, once you've modelled the crossover and built it, you can insert it into the speaker and then measure the frequency response of the speaker as a whole. If you get a frequency response similar to that predicted by the software, great! If not, you'll need to troubleshoot and try to redesign/refine the crossover.

2. This site has a lot of good basic information on this topic and many others relevant to the questions you're asking. I'd spend a good amount of time reading through it (probably a few times) to get a better handle on many aspects of basic speaker design.

A more comprehensive resource is Vance Dickason's Loudspeaker Design Cookbook if you want to try to get your hands on a copy of that.

3. If you're in the States, it's hard to beat Parts Express. In terms of companies that make good value for money drivers in that price range, Dayton is pretty reliable and publishes decent specs on all their range. These are just a couple of suggested retailers/manufacturers, however. There are plenty of other good ones around.

If you'd like help selecting drivers, perhaps you could explain where the speakers will be (room dimensions and basic materials), what you'll use them for, and how loud you want them to go (either in decibels or superlatives).

4. ?

5. I'm not sure I understand this one. The Goldwood Piezo driver is marketed as wide dispersion, but it probably has narrower dispersion than a typical dome tweeter ("wide" is always relative).

Personally, I'd steer clear of Piezos due to how difficult they are to work with and various sound quality factors. Once you've explained how you'll use the speakers, I and others can make some suggestions about what kind of tweeters or even what specific drivers to use.

Hope that helps.

A
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd July 2018, 03:24 PM   #24
andreasmaaan is offline andreasmaaan
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
PS. I think it would be best if you could start by offering a total budget (or a range), and explaining your room and listening requirements. Then we can offer more specific advice from there (sorry if you've done all/some of this already).
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd July 2018, 03:42 PM   #25
WillHoog is offline WillHoog  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
I will start to expand on those sites reading about the stuff.
I am working with a pretty small 17ft by 13ft room that is on the left side a studio set up for music production and on the right a mini weight gym

I know that building this big speakers would be very stupid for such a small room but again this is mainly for the fun of building, learning, and having speakers like that. My Studio monitors have 1 8" driver and a tweeter each. When I put them on max volume (windows Equalizer maxed out, windows volume maxed out, all gain, level, and master volume maxed out on my mixer and even some EQ on the mixer turned up) It can get pretty loud but in some songs I her clipping and I turn it down.

For these DIY ones I hope to never worry about clipping and pretty much have unlimited volume to play with.

I understand that 3 12" drivers is more than enough for this but I want to build speakers with that and am willing to do the research to make it possible

also what ohm should I look for in the drivers?
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd July 2018, 03:47 PM   #26
WillHoog is offline WillHoog  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Quote:
Originally Posted by Borus View Post
Yes what andreasmaaan said.
Lets get some terminology right first. The driver that outputs the lower sounds in a 3 way speaker is a woofer. In a 2 way speaker it is called a mid/bass. The driver in a 3 way speaker that outputs the voices and the majority of the music in the middle range is called a mid-range. The driver that outputs the higher female voice and the screaming aspects of guitar, saxophone and the shimmer of cymbals is called a tweeter. If even higher notes are wanted a driver can be used called a super tweeter. If truly lower notes or rumbling of explosions/thunder are needed than a driver known as a sub-woofer can be used but these last two do not replace the normal woofer or tweeter they augment them.
Now in your 3 way for fun and learning you would want a 12" woofer. Although a 10" at a good price should be considered. A mid-range driver of between 6"-4" should work well go for the best price. It will need to be enclosed this will take up some of the room inside the box used for the woofer. Think simple the cover of an old CD reel or a piece of PVC pipe. Then the tweeter can be had for under $10 from almost anywhere. For your experiment look into car sound systems as many used ones can be had. They will be 4ohm and will play loader with less amplification. The crossover can be done by you with just winding the wires together. Two capacitors and two coils. One coil (wire wrapped around a large bolt 2 or 3 hundred times) for the woofer. One large capacitor (non-polarized somewhere near 150 micro-farads) and a smaller coil wire wrapped around a small wood dowel 80 or 90 times. Then a small capacitor 3-4 micro-farads for the tweeter. Build a box out of plywood glued about one foot square and two feet high. Then while listening to these speakers read up on these pages on how to make them better. They will be good enough to give you a win and show you that you can do this.
For those reading this and disagreeing see my signature.
This explanation is really hard to understand for me but should I have a sub on the bottom, woofer above that, then a divider inside then a mid range and tweeter?

I feel like having a 12" mid range would look better matching the woofers below them and if it doesn't make wiring more complicated I would be willing to spend a couple extra bucks for them.
When I search for them on PartsExpress I am seeing "Full-Range" would these work as mid range too?

Last edited by WillHoog; 3rd July 2018 at 03:51 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd July 2018, 04:15 PM   #27
Galu is offline Galu  Scotland
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillHoog View Post
I understand that 3 12" drivers is more than enough for this but I want to build speakers with that and am willing to do the research to make it possible

also what ohm should I look for in the drivers?
If you want to end up with an 8ohm loudspeaker system then you need (for each cabinet):
  • Two 16ohm woofers (which, when connected in parallel, gives 8ohm).
  • One 8ohm midrange.
  • One 8ohm horn compression tweeter.
  • One 3-way crossover designed for 8ohm speakers.
P.S. You don't need a sub. The two woofers in parallel should give all the bass you need!

P.P.S. Dedicated 12" midrange drivers may be hard to find. Full range drivers may be an option.

Last edited by Galu; 3rd July 2018 at 04:42 PM. Reason: Additional info'
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd July 2018, 04:23 PM   #28
jReave is offline jReave  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Here's a great value, big and loud speaker kit: Tarkus

Maybe price it out and see if it meets your budget. And I'd also suggest shopping at Parts Express.

If that doesn't meet your design goals, you could shop for drivers cheaply elsewhere and try out a pre-made xo but it's not something many of us here would recommend because the results are usually less than stellar.

You could also go the measuring route as suggested above but I'm not 100% sure that's necessary for your purposes.

Instead, for a quick, cheap big and loud system, you might be able to get away with building something just from proper simulations. But to do that you need to select drivers that already provide measured frequency and impedance responses as well as their TS parameters. Without those, none of us here can help you to simulate the proper size boxes and xo's for the chosen drivers.

Dayton drivers at Parts Express would be a good place to look. Personally I also wouldn't go with a 12" mid as the off-axis response doesn't blend well at the typical xo point with the tweeter. I'd probably be looking at 6.5" mids myself.

Possible candidates?
Dayton DC300-8 or Dayton DC250-8
Peerless SDS 6.5"
Dayton DC28F-8

For a raw novice, Dickason has a tendency to make your head want to explode. Try starting with this more gentle introduction by Dennis Murphy or try Ray Alden's Speaker Building 201.

There are more than a few dead links now, but the Speaker Building Bible has some great info and links and there is also much to be learned from speaker design sites like Troels DIY Loudspeakers and Zaph Audio.
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd July 2018, 04:31 PM   #29
WillHoog is offline WillHoog  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Do these choices seem the best for my money?

Woofer
Eminence Delta-12B 12" Driver 16 Ohm

Mid
Eminence Kappa-12A 12" Driver 8 Ohm

Tweeter (Doesn't have mounting holes on the front, how does it mount?)
Pyle PDS182 1.5" Titanium Horn Driver 8 Ohm

Borus says I should build the crossover to have decent sound quality, is this necessary?

Last edited by WillHoog; 3rd July 2018 at 04:38 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd July 2018, 04:53 PM   #30
Galu is offline Galu  Scotland
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillHoog View Post
Tweeter (Doesn't have mounting holes on the front, how does it mount?)
Pyle PDS182 1.5" Titanium Horn Driver 8 Ohm

That's just the compression driver part. You also need to add a horn. The horn has the mounting holes.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Questions about speaker buildingHide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Beginers questions to speaker designing and building imagios Full Range 20 11th February 2016 02:50 PM
Newbie Questions on building an OB speaker rich48 Multi-Way 11 11th December 2015 10:02 PM
Considering Building A 5.1 T-Amp, just a few questions SnoopKatt Class D 3 12th April 2013 04:47 PM
Help in building a 2 way speaker... beginner's questions... fjhuerta Multi-Way 0 2nd June 2005 06:51 PM
General speaker building questions, (a little advice please!) Phil O.son Multi-Way 5 27th May 2003 08:51 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 12:07 AM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Resources saved on this page: MySQL 14.29%
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2018 diyAudio
Wiki