I really want to diy because I really like it but I ment I don't have time to continuously have one project after the other which is why I try my best so hard to do it as good as it can be the first time even though I know it's not the best way to go which is why I really rely on you guys.
Now that I know what software I can use and that you can help me I don't want or need someone else too do the simulations. Why would I want a LR12 filter and why is it not possible with my cabinet and would it be a bad thing?
Now that I know what software I can use and that you can help me I don't want or need someone else too do the simulations. Why would I want a LR12 filter and why is it not possible with my cabinet and would it be a bad thing?
Okay got it. In the end the drivers you have nailed it down to are som of the best on the planet. And for sure the drivers can play together.
LR12 is a second order filter. It requires that the tweeter and mid are acoustically on the same axis. They are typically not on a flat baffle. I think to really nail it, you need to try different slopes. Some prefer higher slopes, some do not. It can make quite a difference to how the sound is perceived. Dont buy expensive crossover components to start with.
Also common is a crossover of odd orders.
LR12 is a second order filter. It requires that the tweeter and mid are acoustically on the same axis. They are typically not on a flat baffle. I think to really nail it, you need to try different slopes. Some prefer higher slopes, some do not. It can make quite a difference to how the sound is perceived. Dont buy expensive crossover components to start with.
Also common is a crossover of odd orders.
No, but it requires well behaved drivers to make a LR12 filter. Specifically on accoustic allignment see this:
Time-Alignment
On Troels Gravesens page there is a HUGE load of information about how to make and design a speaker.
Time-Alignment
On Troels Gravesens page there is a HUGE load of information about how to make and design a speaker.
Regarding front baffle, mid on top is the right choice. The baffle fills in the dip around 1300Hz, see comparison of MR16 response (horizontal 0-90deg) for MT and TM configurations. But, in my case, tweeter response for MT configuration was much worse, and with LR2/LR2 the modelled FR was worse. That is why I went with TM configuration. In your case, large (~R50) baffle roundovers around tweeter should help.
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Hello guys, back from scout camp again. My legs still hurt from the hike from 6 days ago.
I have been thinking a lot about how to make the cabs look beautiful recently because even though I at first really liked my design when I was basing it very strictly on the Kroma Audio Carmen but now with the flat top I'm finding it hard to make it look beautiful. I already started to more take inspiration from the Magico M Project but as I was scrolling around on Pinterest a lot the last few days I kind of fell in love with the look af those angled baffles/edges like on the pictures below. At first I wasn't really attracted to it but now that I have seen pictures of some speakers that have it well implemented I find it very beautiful. I'm gonna try to angle the cab and use such shapes on the baffle but that does mean the tweeter will have to be on top which only has acoustical advantages because ultimately you want the motors of the drivers to be on the same line for time alignment which is why many of Troels Gravesen's design have the piece of baffle for the mid stick out further. If I mount the tweeter on top, then the midrange and then the woofers and angle the I will have the same result. And those slanted edges are the best for frequency response according to the article about the affect of the shape of baffles someone posted earlier.
Drawing this in Tinkercad will be to difficult so I won't have 3D models but I'll do some drawing.
Thoughts?
I have been thinking a lot about how to make the cabs look beautiful recently because even though I at first really liked my design when I was basing it very strictly on the Kroma Audio Carmen but now with the flat top I'm finding it hard to make it look beautiful. I already started to more take inspiration from the Magico M Project but as I was scrolling around on Pinterest a lot the last few days I kind of fell in love with the look af those angled baffles/edges like on the pictures below. At first I wasn't really attracted to it but now that I have seen pictures of some speakers that have it well implemented I find it very beautiful. I'm gonna try to angle the cab and use such shapes on the baffle but that does mean the tweeter will have to be on top which only has acoustical advantages because ultimately you want the motors of the drivers to be on the same line for time alignment which is why many of Troels Gravesen's design have the piece of baffle for the mid stick out further. If I mount the tweeter on top, then the midrange and then the woofers and angle the I will have the same result. And those slanted edges are the best for frequency response according to the article about the affect of the shape of baffles someone posted earlier.
Drawing this in Tinkercad will be to difficult so I won't have 3D models but I'll do some drawing.
Thoughts?
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This article. The bottom right one represents the kind of design I with the slanted edges and it seems to show one of the best responses.
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That's also why I shaped my cabinets like this
I use an Seas Magnum tweeter and a Accuton C82T8 - works great in an avalon shaped cabinet.
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Thank you . This is the pictures from when I build them years ago - they are made from 30mm birch tree.
First I had morel Supreme ST1108 as tweeter, but later found that the seas fitted better, as one of the only ones that has the same slightly bigger diameter. Also I believe that a hard dome tweeter sounds better with a ceramic midrange - because I can control the breakup nicely with my DSP. The old Accuton had a big breakup at 4800hz, but I cross at 2200hz and EQ within the pass-band before adding the filter - great clarity/clean sound and "snap" in these old drivers.
The three woofers are 18W8545K - operating from 90 to 400hz. The subwoofer are XXLS 830952 - and later I have added 2 ekstra subs - so that the sum of the four subs gives me around +/-4dB from 20 - 90hz in and around the listening area.
. This is the pictures from when I build them years ago - they are made from 30mm birch tree.First I had morel Supreme ST1108 as tweeter, but later found that the seas fitted better, as one of the only ones that has the same slightly bigger diameter. Also I believe that a hard dome tweeter sounds better with a ceramic midrange - because I can control the breakup nicely with my DSP. The old Accuton had a big breakup at 4800hz, but I cross at 2200hz and EQ within the pass-band before adding the filter - great clarity/clean sound and "snap" in these old drivers.
The three woofers are 18W8545K - operating from 90 to 400hz. The subwoofer are XXLS 830952 - and later I have added 2 ekstra subs - so that the sum of the four subs gives me around +/-4dB from 20 - 90hz in and around the listening area.
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I've been to iear in Tilburg today for some inspiration and fun. I've heard the KEF Blades driven by a stack of McIntosh preamplifiers and a MC 1,25 kW for each channel. Damn that sounded incredible. I've never heard Jacob Gurevitsch's Spanish Inquisition more beautiful. I've also heard the Sonus Faber Homage Tradition and I've had the Audeze LCD-4 on my head but that last one obviously didn't sound bad but didn't remotely meet my expectations of a 5K euro planar headphone. I it didn't even sound much better than my HD650's from memory at all. But anyway. With these tons of inspiration I've been thinking and I've definitively decided to go with tri-amp active crossovers. Jeroen has explained me the advantages which include lower F3, endless flexibility, the capabilities DSP like roomcorrection etc., no effects of a passive network on the drivers and most of all: ease. And in my case there's also the advantage that when going full active I will buy good, new amplifiers for the entire speaker because I'll have. If I where to use a passive crossover I wouldn't to save costs which leads to the next point: at the end of the day active crossovers and tri-amps won't be more expensive or even cheaper than a passive crossover. Especially when considering the much better performance I'll get.
Long story short. I'm going fully active
Long story short. I'm going fully active
Finally, Jesus something Christ. This literally took me an hour. Don't you just love how apple snaps your neck when you're not stupid enough to spend over 1K on one of their made-to-break-to-make-you-pay-even-more-pieces-of-crap?! Now at least I've got some damn pictures .
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I'm planning to use three HifimeDIY T3S Jantzen caps boards fed by three SMPS300R 48V 230V power supplies or maybe one SMPS600RS for the woofers to be sure it can really deliver during long, heavy bass notes. They've got more than enough power under the hood even to push it to the limit and get amazing reviews in terms of quality as well. I consider to use the SMPS600RS for the woofers because yesterday when I was at iear after I had listened to the Blades another couple came in and for them a very bass heavy song was played and I saw the blue VU meters on those McIntosh MC1,25KWs sometimes nearly tip on the 1,2 kW mark. And I know my speakers will never be able to pull 1,2 kW and don't have four 8" semi-subwoofers on the sides but I just want to make sure there's enough power under the paddle when it really goes down.
For DSP I'm gonna go with the Behringer DCX2496. Jeroen recommended it to me. He said it has good internal components which sound very good and that the capabilities of and interface with the DSP are very good and easy. Even though he said he doesn't like MiniDSP I would always most prefer MiniDSP but any MiniDSP product away from the 2x8 SPDIF that has 6 or more output channels is way to expensive.
So now the total cost will be €706,86 and I would like to keep it like that. I don't think there's any better options but if you do think you know something better the budget is €750,-.
For DSP I'm gonna go with the Behringer DCX2496. Jeroen recommended it to me. He said it has good internal components which sound very good and that the capabilities of and interface with the DSP are very good and easy. Even though he said he doesn't like MiniDSP I would always most prefer MiniDSP but any MiniDSP product away from the 2x8 SPDIF that has 6 or more output channels is way to expensive.
So now the total cost will be €706,86 and I would like to keep it like that. I don't think there's any better options but if you do think you know something better the budget is €750,-.
Dont know what happened, but the McIntosh did for sure not put near 1200 Watt into those Kefs.
I dont know about the HifimeDIY amp. It seems like a good price - but not sure if it is better than mediocre - Or better than other products.
I would look on the second hand market in regards to amplifier.
I dont have first hand experience with the DCX2496, but I do have experience with other Behringer products. I will never buy any electronic from them again. You get what you pay for. Several years ago when I started looking for crossovers- The 2496 was considered mediocre. I think you should lower your expectations if you buy that one. Also: it is meant for balanced amplifiers (XLR). If you use ubalanced amplifiers (with normal phono inputs) you may run into hissing noise. Which I think you will anyway with the 2496. Best way to use that produkt is running a multichannel pre-amp between 2496 and power amplifiers.
Another option would be to swap the SB beryllium tweeter to the SATORI TW29RN-B. Yes it is different, but it is still one of the best tweeters out there right now. And I think it is better than many of the tweeters that are put into so called high-end speakers. If you do that you save more than 200 EUR.
Have you looked at the new Hypex Fusion amps? - They use their so called NCORE amps. I think the only perhaps better (or maybe it is a matter of taste) digital amp on the market right know is PASCAL. But pascal is way over your budget. I havent heard them and the DSP is not as flexible as miniDSP. But I am almost totally sure it is WAY better than 2496...Two Fusion FA123 is 750 EUR.
I dont know about the HifimeDIY amp. It seems like a good price - but not sure if it is better than mediocre - Or better than other products.
I would look on the second hand market in regards to amplifier.
I dont have first hand experience with the DCX2496, but I do have experience with other Behringer products. I will never buy any electronic from them again. You get what you pay for. Several years ago when I started looking for crossovers- The 2496 was considered mediocre. I think you should lower your expectations if you buy that one. Also: it is meant for balanced amplifiers (XLR). If you use ubalanced amplifiers (with normal phono inputs) you may run into hissing noise. Which I think you will anyway with the 2496. Best way to use that produkt is running a multichannel pre-amp between 2496 and power amplifiers.
Another option would be to swap the SB beryllium tweeter to the SATORI TW29RN-B. Yes it is different, but it is still one of the best tweeters out there right now. And I think it is better than many of the tweeters that are put into so called high-end speakers. If you do that you save more than 200 EUR.
Have you looked at the new Hypex Fusion amps? - They use their so called NCORE amps. I think the only perhaps better (or maybe it is a matter of taste) digital amp on the market right know is PASCAL. But pascal is way over your budget. I havent heard them and the DSP is not as flexible as miniDSP. But I am almost totally sure it is WAY better than 2496...Two Fusion FA123 is 750 EUR.
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Jeroen has explained the DCX2496 very well tok me and he says the one problem it has, hissing, he can fix with a small modification. I do believe Jeroen. He has been using the 2496 for a long time. I also don't think the HifimeDIY amps are bad. They really get great reviews and they're often recommended as one of the better brands for raw amp boards, especially for the price.
The XLR/RCA combo is indeed a big problem and not only will it give hissing problems but I don't like using piles of adapters in my cabling. It's messy.
So I have looked into the Hypex modules and they may indeed be a better option. I never really looked at plate amps because of their price and low flexibility but the FA123 actually suits perfectly. It has three channels with plenty of power and I obviously trust Hypex in terms of sound quality. And they fit the budget. I do indeed think it will be better now.
The XLR/RCA combo is indeed a big problem and not only will it give hissing problems but I don't like using piles of adapters in my cabling. It's messy.
So I have looked into the Hypex modules and they may indeed be a better option. I never really looked at plate amps because of their price and low flexibility but the FA123 actually suits perfectly. It has three channels with plenty of power and I obviously trust Hypex in terms of sound quality. And they fit the budget. I do indeed think it will be better now.
I'm not compomising on the speakers/drivers themselves. I know that the combination of amps and speakers is very important but the speakers themselves are the biggest factor so they are first priority. Amps are easy to swap out would I want to upgrade. Drivers aren't that easy to swap. And I'm very happy with the driver combination that I've chosen now, it's the best out there and they work together very well in terms of sensitivity etc. matching.
Nice that you know a person who can do some modifications on it!
Still I think the Hypex are much better. I think the NCore amps get very good reviews. I you had to built them DIY the price is skyrocket high. One monochannel is 650 EUR in a nice cabinet from Hypex. You need six of those. In that regard FA123 is very cheap. And it has loads of inputs. I think two Satori 9 1/2" run in parallel will hit linear X-max around 80-90 Watt. So should be plenty for the drivers.
Fine that you wont swap drivers- they are indeed EPIC drivers.
Still I think the Hypex are much better. I think the NCore amps get very good reviews. I you had to built them DIY the price is skyrocket high. One monochannel is 650 EUR in a nice cabinet from Hypex. You need six of those. In that regard FA123 is very cheap. And it has loads of inputs. I think two Satori 9 1/2" run in parallel will hit linear X-max around 80-90 Watt. So should be plenty for the drivers.
Fine that you wont swap drivers- they are indeed EPIC drivers.
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