I'm not just trying to still spend more money but now that the NX is so much less expensive Crescendo's would actually fit my budget but I can't really see why they should be better or at least for me. The sensitivity is higher but the low sensitivity of the Millennium us just what I like about it so much, the Millennium's frequency response graphs are flatter and further there really isn't anything else on the spec list that's better with the Crescendo.
I'm just gonna stick with the Millennium but I just ask because I wonder what should make the Crescendo better.
And now that I have made my definitive decision. What crossover point and order would you recommend?
I'm just gonna stick with the Millennium but I just ask because I wonder what should make the Crescendo better.
And now that I have made my definitive decision. What crossover point and order would you recommend?
Last edited:
3-wayaddict: look at your signature and look at mine. I have no problems with tweeter power handling these days.
With the TW29RN-B I did have power handling issues. SB26ADC handles more, and has 20dB less 2nd harmonic distortion over the Satori. After EQ, it definately sounds better than the Satori.
With the TW29RN-B I did have power handling issues. SB26ADC handles more, and has 20dB less 2nd harmonic distortion over the Satori. After EQ, it definately sounds better than the Satori.
A few combinations I would recommend:
MW16/MR16 + SS7100 (and even better with WG148R), crossover ~2000Hz
W18EX + Bliesma, crossover as low as possible for Bliesma, 1300Hz LR4 should be feasible, see Hificompass Pharaoh
W18NX + 6600/7100 in WG
SS 18M + 6600/7100 in WG148R or WG300, crossover ~2000Hz
MW16/MR16 + SS7100 (and even better with WG148R), crossover ~2000Hz
W18EX + Bliesma, crossover as low as possible for Bliesma, 1300Hz LR4 should be feasible, see Hificompass Pharaoh
W18NX + 6600/7100 in WG
SS 18M + 6600/7100 in WG148R or WG300, crossover ~2000Hz
Thanks for your recommendations but the Millennium looks better than the 7100 or 6600 to me and the Scan-Speak again go way louder/too loud, at this point I can't really see what should make the Scan-Speak better than the Millennium, especially the Revelator or at least for me. The Bliesma is insanely expensive, €300,- without tax. But I think I had already made my decision which I'm really happy with and should work very good as well.
This is like watching a train wreck in slow motion. 
What are you trying to achieve here, 3wayaddict? You really need some idea of a concept before buying drivers. If this NeoXCD1 is a 3kHz tweeter, the only game in town is a 4-5" midrange or two.
TBH, I wouldn't buy a heavy coned 4 ohm bass to go with that, because 4 ohms is bad for most amps. But really this sort of thing is a much more cost efficient style: SEAS-3-Way-Classic
Have a look around Troels Gravesens website for ideas: DIY-Loudspeakers
Me, I am definitely cheapish. I use a £50 8" Visaton W200S-8 8" bass and a £10 Visaton TW70 2" tweeter in cabs I picked up for £20 at the junk store. The main thing was I knew where I was heading. 6moons audio reviews: WLM La Scala
I'm pretty good at crossovers, so no surprise they sound superb. Why pay more? And believe me, women are really not interested in speakers or sound. Just as long as it works on Dido records, and is not too ugly.
For an insight into how 8" plus 1"tweeter can work spectacularly well, learn from Alan Shaw of Harbeth: YouTube
What are you trying to achieve here, 3wayaddict? You really need some idea of a concept before buying drivers. If this NeoXCD1 is a 3kHz tweeter, the only game in town is a 4-5" midrange or two.
TBH, I wouldn't buy a heavy coned 4 ohm bass to go with that, because 4 ohms is bad for most amps. But really this sort of thing is a much more cost efficient style: SEAS-3-Way-Classic
Have a look around Troels Gravesens website for ideas: DIY-Loudspeakers
Me, I am definitely cheapish. I use a £50 8" Visaton W200S-8 8" bass and a £10 Visaton TW70 2" tweeter in cabs I picked up for £20 at the junk store. The main thing was I knew where I was heading. 6moons audio reviews: WLM La Scala
I'm pretty good at crossovers, so no surprise they sound superb. Why pay more? And believe me, women are really not interested in speakers or sound. Just as long as it works on Dido records, and is not too ugly.
For an insight into how 8" plus 1"tweeter can work spectacularly well, learn from Alan Shaw of Harbeth: YouTube
This is like watching a train wreck in slow motion.
What are you trying to achieve here, 3wayaddict? You really need some idea of a concept before buying drivers. If this NeoXCD1 is a 3kHz tweeter, the only game in town is a 4-5" midrange or two.
TBH, I wouldn't buy a heavy coned 4 ohm bass to go with that, because 4 ohms is bad for most amps. But really this sort of thing is a much more cost efficient style: SEAS-3-Way-Classic
Have a look around Troels Gravesens website for ideas: DIY-Loudspeakers
Me, I am definitely cheapish. I use a £50 8" Visaton W200S-8 8" bass and a £10 Visaton TW70 2" tweeter in cabs I picked up for £20 at the junk store. The main thing was I knew where I was heading. 6moons audio reviews: WLM La Scala
I'm pretty good at crossovers, so no surprise they sound superb. Why pay more? And believe me, women are really not interested in speakers or sound. Just as long as it works on Dido records, and is not too ugly.
For an insight into how 8" plus 1"tweeter can work spectacularly well, learn from Alan Shaw of Harbeth: YouTube
Have you actually even red the entire conversation?
You're still talking about the Fountek and 5" mid. We are well passed those. And as also discussed previously, no 5" mid is gonna cut it. I've already tried every 5", from SB to Accuton. None of them fulfilled my needs. And by the way, there's no such thing as a NeoXCD1.0 and we were talking about the NeoX3.0.
I'm not trying to achieve a specific type of sound (excuse me if that isn't to your liking), I don't know what to aim for yet in terms of what type of sound since I'm only 15 and this is my first build. The only thing I'm aiming for is the best possible sound with some good subwoofer grade bass in combination with uncompromised overall sound quality (I'm not a bass head just to be clear). And as mentioned above, I'm 15. So why the heck did you have to introduce women in this conversation. Or why even at all, disregarding my age?!
And maybe you're cheap-a$$ but that doesn't mean I have to be one as well.
And if you think my amps won't be able to handle a maximum of 170 watts RMS at 4 Ohm with just midrange and above frequencies, I don't know on what 50 year old piece of plastic you're basing that but you watch my Marantz PM11-S1 for the highs and Crown Xli 2500 for the subs rock it without breaking a sweat.
Last edited:
I did guess you were a young person.
And like most young persons, you are seduced by the idea of the ultimate sound. Well, the truth is that every idea is a compromise.
Wiring two 8" 4 ohm basses in series for 8 ohms is a plan that can work. It works out much the same as a single one with a crossover adjustment. You might enjoy this design: SEAS TJL3W
I've been doing this stuff for near 45 years. And mostly I work with ideas that have some merit.
This is a great Wharfedale E70 speaker incorporating some good ideas:
Here's a more expensive Roy Allison design:
Here's how I would do a ribbon tweeter with 6" bass, assuming the bass end is taken care of elsewhere. This is your cylindrical PA sound that is so different from the regular spherical inverse square law.
Curiously a good friend of mine has a £500,000 system (one of the best in the world) he lets me loose on with my favourite discs. It's digital and LR4 24dB/octave and wall mounted in a beautifully acoustically damped home cinema. You hear things in the acoustics of the recording you would never hear in the regular room.
For all that, I like cheap too. The perfect is often the enemy of the good. His wife has banished him to his music room. She won't have the stuff in her lounge.
And like most young persons, you are seduced by the idea of the ultimate sound. Well, the truth is that every idea is a compromise.
Wiring two 8" 4 ohm basses in series for 8 ohms is a plan that can work. It works out much the same as a single one with a crossover adjustment. You might enjoy this design: SEAS TJL3W
I've been doing this stuff for near 45 years. And mostly I work with ideas that have some merit.
This is a great Wharfedale E70 speaker incorporating some good ideas:
Here's a more expensive Roy Allison design:
Here's how I would do a ribbon tweeter with 6" bass, assuming the bass end is taken care of elsewhere. This is your cylindrical PA sound that is so different from the regular spherical inverse square law.
Curiously a good friend of mine has a £500,000 system (one of the best in the world) he lets me loose on with my favourite discs. It's digital and LR4 24dB/octave and wall mounted in a beautifully acoustically damped home cinema. You hear things in the acoustics of the recording you would never hear in the regular room.
For all that, I like cheap too. The perfect is often the enemy of the good. His wife has banished him to his music room. She won't have the stuff in her lounge.
Last edited:
Let's look at your box idea:
Really, do you have the woodwork skills there?
But it's actually not the only game in Town. Harbeth hardly ever use a brace!
YouTube
This is light box construction with damped panels. 50 litres at 2:1 ratio. It works! Alan Shaw explains it.
Thing is, Harbeth aren't cheap at all. Some people think them the best speakers in the world. And, for what it's worth, I do have some three ways. So I know their strengths.
Really, do you have the woodwork skills there?
But it's actually not the only game in Town. Harbeth hardly ever use a brace!
YouTube
This is light box construction with damped panels. 50 litres at 2:1 ratio. It works! Alan Shaw explains it.
Thing is, Harbeth aren't cheap at all. Some people think them the best speakers in the world. And, for what it's worth, I do have some three ways. So I know their strengths.
Millenium tweeter looks attractive but I consider it of low performance/price quality. It was used extensively in the Thor build and I don't find it sounding impressive at all. From this line, the 001 I like better.
The Adc tweeter is very good, Scanspeak 9130 in a waveguide too, if you want a darker sound, sb29rdc. Transducer labs too.
Pairing it well with a suitable mid would be far more critical. And you can add a cheap amt on top
The Adc tweeter is very good, Scanspeak 9130 in a waveguide too, if you want a darker sound, sb29rdc. Transducer labs too.
Pairing it well with a suitable mid would be far more critical. And you can add a cheap amt on top
Yes I do have the skills to build that enclosure and I'm not working on own my as well. I'm building the cabs at the workshop of a friend of my dad, he's a very good woodworker. I've made some speakers with him before and I didn't even have to fill up the edges because they were so tight.
I know there's other way to construct a cabinet but all of those special techniques to build a cabinet like that what Harbeth uses are "special techniques" and I would also love to use the tech Magico or Kroma uses but they require a hell of a lot of measurements and tweaks to be made which is kinda hard you're 15 y/o diy who doesn't have a test facility to his disposal so the way I want to do it right now is the make-it-as-stif-as-possible-way. Everything is constructed from 25mm MDF with obviously the heavy bracing.
They subwoofers are mounted to the baffle and with a brace around the magnets (but not decoupled!) to couple them to the entire cabinet more evenly, spread out the vibrations and minimize baffle radiations.
The midrange will be mounted in a similar way but softly mounted using the construction on the picture below which I designed myself.
The tweeter will mounted to the baffle the same way but without the brace around the magnet obviously.
It's a bottom port because a slot port without to many bends in it didn't fit (just believe me) and because two 7,5 cm ports were too small, one 10 cm port was too small and one 15 cm port was wayyy too big and expensive I had to use pvc pipes from the hardware store, this one has an ID of 11,8 cm, which is perfect, and I could have mounted the port on the back but the fitting PVC elbows which are ment for water and don't really care about aerodynamics to much had some pretty harsh corners in them and if I were to do it with the end on the rear it had to come in the top (so the inside end would be in the bottom) because if I were to end it at the bottom (with the inside end in the top) the coming air would go up and down again into the cab AND if the port would come out that high it would blow straight into a very tight corner because I'm in the attic and the front walls are tilted which didn't seem that good to me either.
So then a bottom port would be the best decision. It's the simplest and a straight, non-turbulent pipe, it comes out the bottom where there is more room for it to breathe and because the air is coming in and out in every direction it can breathe even more freely.
I know there's other way to construct a cabinet but all of those special techniques to build a cabinet like that what Harbeth uses are "special techniques" and I would also love to use the tech Magico or Kroma uses but they require a hell of a lot of measurements and tweaks to be made which is kinda hard you're 15 y/o diy who doesn't have a test facility to his disposal so the way I want to do it right now is the make-it-as-stif-as-possible-way. Everything is constructed from 25mm MDF with obviously the heavy bracing.
They subwoofers are mounted to the baffle and with a brace around the magnets (but not decoupled!) to couple them to the entire cabinet more evenly, spread out the vibrations and minimize baffle radiations.
The midrange will be mounted in a similar way but softly mounted using the construction on the picture below which I designed myself.
The tweeter will mounted to the baffle the same way but without the brace around the magnet obviously.
It's a bottom port because a slot port without to many bends in it didn't fit (just believe me) and because two 7,5 cm ports were too small, one 10 cm port was too small and one 15 cm port was wayyy too big and expensive I had to use pvc pipes from the hardware store, this one has an ID of 11,8 cm, which is perfect, and I could have mounted the port on the back but the fitting PVC elbows which are ment for water and don't really care about aerodynamics to much had some pretty harsh corners in them and if I were to do it with the end on the rear it had to come in the top (so the inside end would be in the bottom) because if I were to end it at the bottom (with the inside end in the top) the coming air would go up and down again into the cab AND if the port would come out that high it would blow straight into a very tight corner because I'm in the attic and the front walls are tilted which didn't seem that good to me either.
So then a bottom port would be the best decision. It's the simplest and a straight, non-turbulent pipe, it comes out the bottom where there is more room for it to breathe and because the air is coming in and out in every direction it can breathe even more freely.
Attachments
Last edited:
Price doesn`t necessarily mean good sound reproduction. Don`t let yourself into this trap. Yes, some of the higher end tweeters, like the 9900, Satori, Transducer lab and the Morel MD-33 (overlooked but superb) are very strong performers but for the same amount you can use a cheaper tweeter that if used properly may come equal.
If you like high resolution (can be fatiguing with some material) - a combination of the old Peerless HDS, now Scan 9130 put in a waveguide + some air motion transformer or Fountek NeoCD1 as a super tweeter (yes, the tweeter crossed to a supertweeter) will sound much better than a single expensive unit and if the guide can load it well, you can crossover to the Seas magnesium mid at 1.6Khz easily. Low crossover points put a lot of stress on tweeters and may sound thin as they lack Sd, there were pics of shattered ceramic tweeters due to high stress. But a waveguide will solve this, besides it lowers distortion, will give you control over the beam and some like the WG300 will recess the tweeter thus providing physical allignment. All solved for something like EUR10 per WG300
Seas have decently priced tweeters that are not worse than their Excel counterparts, as do SB Acoustics.
If you like high resolution (can be fatiguing with some material) - a combination of the old Peerless HDS, now Scan 9130 put in a waveguide + some air motion transformer or Fountek NeoCD1 as a super tweeter (yes, the tweeter crossed to a supertweeter) will sound much better than a single expensive unit and if the guide can load it well, you can crossover to the Seas magnesium mid at 1.6Khz easily. Low crossover points put a lot of stress on tweeters and may sound thin as they lack Sd, there were pics of shattered ceramic tweeters due to high stress. But a waveguide will solve this, besides it lowers distortion, will give you control over the beam and some like the WG300 will recess the tweeter thus providing physical allignment. All solved for something like EUR10 per WG300
Seas have decently priced tweeters that are not worse than their Excel counterparts, as do SB Acoustics.
Last edited:
I think the Scan-Speak seem better than the Satori. Still gets reviewed better.
I understand you guys keep telling me there's great stuff for less as well but that doesn't mean the more expensive stuff isn't any better. Now with this Scan-Speak Illuminator X Seas Excel setup the total price is well under €2K which really is very reasonable in comparison with the previous all-Seas Excel setup.
I understand you guys keep telling me there's great stuff for less as well but that doesn't mean the more expensive stuff isn't any better. Now with this Scan-Speak Illuminator X Seas Excel setup the total price is well under €2K which really is very reasonable in comparison with the previous all-Seas Excel setup.
Last edited:
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.