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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Seas Excel W18EX001 vs Scan-Speak 18M/4631T00
Seas Excel W18EX001 vs Scan-Speak 18M/4631T00
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Old 9th August 2018, 02:19 PM   #211
tonza75 is offline tonza75  Europe
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Advise from others what to choose, this is DIY, (beryllium or cheaper)
Buy a kit, best to listen first if option available. Go and listen beryllium tweeter it may sound better as you know it's beryllium.
Ears & , wallet is yours Inc. Amplifier & source, living space.
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Old 9th August 2018, 10:50 PM   #212
3wayaddict is offline 3wayaddict  Netherlands
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I don't want to buy a kit as I said before as well. It takes away all of the fun. Then I could better just buy a pair of Scansonic MB-1's or Sonus Faber Venere 2.0's or Monitor Audio Gold 100's. I want to make it my own. And I've already come this far.
I know what beryllium sounds like and I like it. I heard the beryllium tweeters of the Magico S3 Mk II's at Chattellin.
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Old 10th August 2018, 08:41 AM   #213
sottomano is online now sottomano
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3wayaddict View Post
By the way. Actually. What is easier to address in the crossover. A 1,5 dB difference between the mid woofer and tweeter or a 3dB difference? The TW29BN-B-8 has a 93,5 dB sensitivity. The normal TW29BN-B 95 dB. And the MR16P-4 a sensitivity of 92 dB.
The "normal" has higher sensitivity because it's a nominal 4 Ohm driver, which takes more power than a 8 Ohm driver at the same Voltage (i.e. 2W vs. 1W @2.83V). You will dissipate more power in padding and/or series resistors if going with 4 Ohm. But, just in case you are going to use a more sensitive mid one day, you will have more flexibility going with the "normal" (whatever that should mean) 4 Ohm variety. These tweeters are so expensive, you better keep them for a decade or so.
Btw, given you are asking these questions, what are your plans about the crossover, how will you develop it? It is a more difficult task than chosing drivers...and much more important. It won't be easy not to make your 4 digit driver selection sound worse than one wisely chosen and crossed over competently costing less than $500 for two speakers.
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Old 10th August 2018, 08:44 AM   #214
3wayaddict is offline 3wayaddict  Netherlands
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When these speakers are done I'm not planning to rebuild it anytime soon and I'm so doing my best at choosing the best possible drivers because I'm these speakers are supposed to be extremely good and last a while so I won't have to build anything better than this anytime soon so now I'm just looking for the best possible match for this project.
I don't at all know how I'm going to make the crossovers yet which is why I rely so heavily on you guys. I have no idea how crossovers work yet.
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Last edited by 3wayaddict; 10th August 2018 at 08:51 AM.
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Old 10th August 2018, 09:13 AM   #215
Jeroen Mantel is offline Jeroen Mantel  Netherlands
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Goeie morgen!

Als ik jou was zou ik niet voor de neodymium versie van de beryllium tweeter gaan, de versie met de ferriet magneet (TW29B-B) komt namelijk veel lager, en dat maakt het crossover werk een stuk makkelijker.
Daarnaast is de ferriet versie ook minder gevoelig, dus dat past weer beter bij je mid.
Ze zijn ook nog eens minder duur

Groeten, Jeroen
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Old 10th August 2018, 09:24 AM   #216
3wayaddict is offline 3wayaddict  Netherlands
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Hey yeah. I thought the B was a downgrade model but now I see it's just ferrite. It actually perfectly matches the sensitivity of the MR16P-4. I see the response is still as good as you would expect from beryllium but is it also just as good distortion wise?
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Old 10th August 2018, 11:11 AM   #217
3wayaddict is offline 3wayaddict  Netherlands
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Of seems to be no different performance wise. It's a perfect match! Bbedankt voor de top tip Jeroen!
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Old 11th August 2018, 09:39 AM   #218
digitalthor is offline digitalthor  Denmark
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I agree with Rokytheman.
Great that you recieved critique positively
But I still think you are chasing the perfect in a time of your life, where there is so much to learn. Do realise that many cheap drivers will sound realy great, when used wisely.
I ones believed - like you - that I could just jump directly to a finished construction and that by thinking hard enough, I would avoid all errors. Oh - I was in for a learning experience, believe me
Today I have speakes that are great, but slowly I discover what I did wrong in the beginning.
Do understand, that I cant stop you using a lot of money on expensive drivers in your quest for perfection. I'm simply trying to inform you, that you are better of with some more experience, before you invest in something - maybe blinded - by fanzy numbers and specs.
I do not write this to be annoying or arrogant - I just have to agree with the people who tried to warn me, when I was like you
And it's fine if you want to "break" the likelyhood of statistics - but when you have no knowledge in the area of x-overs - then you still have a lot of work to do. The seas driver is fine as long as you take care of the break-up of the cone. Maybe the SB ADC26. This is a great driver, that can also be used with a waveguide, so that x-over will be even better - the same with dispersion, which is very important for the way we percieve sound.
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Old 11th August 2018, 10:24 AM   #219
Rokytheman is offline Rokytheman  Denmark
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How about handing the crossover part to the man behind humblehomemadeaudio.com. He seems like a true master in regards to crossovers.

I think it takes years of practice to make a good passive crossover. One must at least be able to make several different iterations. Go back and forth between them. It may take much longer than the actual build of the cabinet. I think it is impossible to actually understand how complicated it is before having played with it. If the crossover is not nailed, the sound will be no more than mediocre. Better to buy secondhand.

I totally agree with you digitalthor. Perfection may come one day. But not without practice. That said, the drivers you for now are aiming at, is IMO some of the best out there right now. But without loads of practice, they will not show their full potential.

Just tuning a basreflex is something that takes a lot of practice.
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Old 11th August 2018, 12:01 PM   #220
digitalthor is offline digitalthor  Denmark
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@3Wayaddict.
You could also settle for less expensive drivers - for now. And then invest in an active solution and some simple measuring equipment. This will teach you alot about how everything works and you could quickly get first hand experience with the result of different filters and the sum of the drivers response. Secondly - it will quickly cost you lots of money to invest in many different passive components, so an active solution is getting better in many aspects ;o)
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