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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Castle Harlech S2 front top (mid) driver x2 needed!
Castle Harlech S2 front top (mid) driver x2 needed!
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Old 4th February 2019, 08:32 PM   #21
EarlK is offline EarlK  Canada
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dubplate007,

If you want to try out an internet derived crossover ( with all its failings ) here's one ( I traced the available product info and then threw it all into XSim );

Castle Harlech S2 front top (mid) driver x2 needed!-seas_with_2xmonacor_-png

This will only be a starting point because you have one woofer pointing up+ away from the listener ( this crossover is much more applicable to a straight-forward MTM setup > though without any BSC applied ).

All this means you'll need to turn down the level of the tweeter by increasing the value of R3 ( likely doubling it at the very least ).

This network closely follows the topology ( fwiw ) of the one seen in the pic that I posted ( albiet adjusted for the lower impedance drivers ).

The most significant change is the addition of a notch filter on the twin woofers ( though it might not be needed if the real "tested" response ends up being flatter than the product sheet indicates ).

- L2+C2+R2 form the PEQ notch centered around @ 1400hz .
- R2 will adjust ( the notch depth ) by varying the 5R value upwards to as high as 10 ohms ( iow; 10 ohms gives less cut ).

Some overall resistance needs to be added somewhere to bring the minimum impedance up to at least 4 ohms ( maybe small gauge wiring for the woofers could be used ).
- Currently this network is a bit of an amp killer dipping to 3 ohms ( so beware ).

Attached Images
File Type: png SEAS_with_2xMonacor_.PNG (60.0 KB, 63 views)

Last edited by EarlK; 4th February 2019 at 08:46 PM.
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Old 5th February 2019, 02:46 PM   #22
dubplate007 is offline dubplate007  United Kingdom
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Thanks Earl i will give this a try and report back once i get the time to execute this design
Luckily i have an amp that is happy into 2ohm loads so will be a real test as to the makers claims ?????? but i really appreciate your input many thanks
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Old 6th February 2019, 04:18 PM   #23
dubplate007 is offline dubplate007  United Kingdom
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Hi Karl
I managed to trace the original harlech crossovers ,on the bass section it is a 1.50 mh inductor and a 10 uf cap used as a flattening zobel on the 2nd pole which flattens the impedance of the bass units the 1 ohm resistor in parallel with the 10 uf cap apparently modulates the impedance to make the units when run in parallel look more like 5 ohms than 4 ohms .......i was wondering if you could run that circuit with the monacor units in your xsim program and see what adjustments can be made to suit the monacor units?
many thanks in advance
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Old 6th February 2019, 04:18 PM   #24
dubplate007 is offline dubplate007  United Kingdom
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Sorry Earl not Karl up at 3 this morning please forgive
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Old 6th February 2019, 05:56 PM   #25
EarlK is offline EarlK  Canada
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Join Date: Mar 2006
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dubplate007,

If you want to see why the original crossover won't work well with your new drivers then you'll need to download Xsim download_"free passive crossover simulator" and then take play with the following attached (zipped) file .

Just "right-click" on any passive element, chose "Tune" and change the values to what matches your existing crossover.

"Right-Clicking" also includes some other choices such a "short" & "open" which when chosen will allow you to bypass or take a string of elements completely out of circuit.

Have fun!

Attached Files
File Type: zip Monacor SPH-135C_SEAS_modB.zip (24.2 KB, 2 views)

Last edited by EarlK; 6th February 2019 at 06:20 PM.
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Old 6th February 2019, 07:37 PM   #26
dubplate007 is offline dubplate007  United Kingdom
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Thank you once again i will try that
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Old 11th February 2019, 04:12 PM   #27
dubplate007 is offline dubplate007  United Kingdom
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Hi all ,just to clarify ,a friend and i managed to work out exactly what the original harlech crossovers do ,to anyone with doubts and looking to replace the original drive units with the Monacor sph 135 c or kevlar equivalent ,these will work fine with the original crossover ,although not designed for those woofers ,i can report minimal change in impedance and or characteristics apart from the monacors are a bit more punchy in the bass,and if honest a smidgen darker than the original woofers ,but that is down to the drive units not the crossover
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Old 12th February 2019, 01:33 AM   #28
system7 is offline system7  United Kingdom
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After all the agonising, the fix to the broken woofer was easy enough...

Best use the replacement Carbon Fibre 5" Monacor SPH135C in the top firing position:

Click the image to open in full size.

Bit of a typical bump at around 1.4kHz there, and some typical Kevlar or Carbon Fibre breakup at 6kHz. Sort of breakup thing polycones are better at.

The crossover is basic enough, whatever the exact details. Around 2.5kHz XO. You would need quite a bit of work to get it to monitor flatness, but most people can live with these imperfections. Actually a speaker that works with the room to get a reasonable power response IMO. I suppose it might be a bit thin on vocals in Castle's layout.

The red resistors are adjustable, though the 1R does next to nothing anyway. The 2.2R will adjust tweeter brightness.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Castle Harlech Speaker.JPG (22.3 KB, 23 views)
File Type: png Crossover MTM Style Castle Harlech.PNG (6.3 KB, 21 views)
File Type: png FR MTM Style Castle Harlech.PNG (19.6 KB, 10 views)
File Type: png Phase Castle Harlech MTM Style.PNG (20.4 KB, 8 views)
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Best Regards from Steve in Portsmouth, UK.
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