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War of the 10" monster midbasses
War of the 10" monster midbasses
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Old 24th June 2018, 03:32 AM   #1
OscarS is offline OscarS  United States
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Default War of the 10" monster midbasses

Round 1 of the war of the monster 10" Midbasses -

On Axis FR and Harmonic Distortion.


Ciare NDH 10-3's
vs
Faital Pro 10FH520's
vs
Faital Pro 10FH530's
vs
Faital Pro 10HP1020's
vs
Eighteen Sound 10NW750's

(plus in the future: vs B&C 10PLB76's vs Beyma 10MC700ND's vs Eighteen Sound 10NDA610's).

The theme here is minimum 3" voice coils, minimum 400W RMS/AES power handling, most with flux demodulating rings, ~4-6mm Xmax. This is Texas, go big or go home (except for pricing, lol, looking to stay under $300 per driver limit). Hoping for good low-distortion performance. Intended frequency range use is about 150-200Hz on the low-end, and 1.0-1.5kHz on the top end.


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Individual Drivers - On-Axis Frequency Response - 2.83V, 1 meter, in-room, including reflections


Ciare NDH 10-3's

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Faital Pro 10FH520's
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Faital Pro 10FH530's
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Faital Pro 10HP1020's
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Eighteen Sound 10NW750's
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All Drivers FR superimposed.

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As expected from the FR graphs, the 10HP1020 is the "dullest" and the NDH10-3 is the "brightest" sounding. The funny thing is, all the Faital's and the 18 Sound drivers have demodulating rings in the motors, and Ciare says that the NDH10-3 does not have any kind of shorting/demodulating rings in the motor!.




Individual driver distortion performances. SPL levels at the specified 105-107 dB are @ 1m on-axis taken at ~500Hz.

Ciare NDH10-3

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Faital Pro 10FH530
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Faital Pro 10FH520
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Faital Pro 10HP1020
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Eighteen Sound 10NW750
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This last graph shows the THD of the 5 above midbasses superimposed into one chart, with the very last one being windowed from 80Hz-10kHz, from 0 to 4 % THD.
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Next time I'll do some CSD plots and polar response plots. Maybe with some more midbasses. I had considered the AE TD10M but @ $460 fully loaded it's too much for this hobbyist, lol. I'm trying to get a hold of a pair of PD.103NR1's as well.



Here is a ZIP file containing all data thus far.

Ten Inch Midbass Drivers.zip
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Old 24th June 2018, 04:59 AM   #2
TMM is offline TMM  Australia
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All of these are quite impressive. I expected much higher HD around 400-500Hz due to cone breakup.
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Old 24th June 2018, 05:40 AM   #3
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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War of the 10" monster midbasses
that little Ciare is quite a performer
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Old 24th June 2018, 06:43 AM   #4
OscarS is offline OscarS  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freddi View Post
that little Ciare is quite a performer
Yup, that seems to be the consensus on the various forums.
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Old 24th June 2018, 09:11 AM   #5
cph2000 is offline cph2000  Denmark
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Thanks for sharing!
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Old 1st July 2018, 02:39 AM   #6
OscarS is offline OscarS  United States
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News break, this just in! More data.

I added a B&C 10PLB76 and an 18 Sound 10NDA610 to this royal rumble.

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Same test conditions as before.

B&C 10PLB76 Frequency Response

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B&C 10PLB76 Distortion Performance

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18 Sound 10NDA610 FR with and without AIC. The addition of AIC results in ~ +5dB hotter output from about 2kHz-upward, with the change starting around 1.5kHz.


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Interestingly, the distortion with AIC decreases on the low-end but not on the high-end, but I guess it makes sense since it is not shorted, but rather in parallel to the voice coil.

Without AIC

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with AIC

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and for the kicker, here it is with the AIC coil shorted to itself...

18 Sound NDA610 FR comparing without AIC, with AIC, and AIC shorted. A little bit hotter than without, but not as hot as with AIC on the top-end.

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18 Sound NDA610 Distortion with AIC shorted

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18 Sound NDA610 Distortion Percentage with AIC, without AIC, and AIC shorted.


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18 Sound 10NDA610 Impedance/phase & T/S parameters via DATS V2

Without AIC.

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With AIC. Top-end impedance and phase shift near resonance definitely flattens out.
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Shorted AIC. Impedance Peak and phase shift remains largely unaffected, but the top-end impedance does decrease.
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The inductance on my DATS V2 has never checked out compared to mfg spec sheets. 18 Sound claims 0.06mH @ 1kHz w/ AIC, DATS V2 shows ~0.8mH. Oh well, no biggie. I'm sure the DATS V2 has limitations.



18 Sound 10NDA610 Impedance/Phase combined.
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Latest ZIP file with all info.

Ten Inch Midbass Drivers.zip

Lots more testing to do!!!
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Old 1st July 2018, 03:36 AM   #7
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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War of the 10" monster midbasses
fantastic ongoing survey - wonder how the poor - man's Eminence Delta10a might fare (?)
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Old 1st July 2018, 03:48 AM   #8
ErnieM is offline ErnieM  United States
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Your DATS measurements are pretty much exactly the same as my WT3 results for the 10NDA610.

Nice to see quality control is tight.
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Old 1st July 2018, 04:07 AM   #9
OscarS is offline OscarS  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freddi View Post
fantastic ongoing survey - wonder how the poor - man's Eminence Delta10a might fare (?)
send it to me and I'll test it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ErnieM View Post
Your DATS measurements are pretty much exactly the same as my WT3 results for the 10NDA610.

Nice to see quality control is tight.
I was definitely impressed with the 10NW750, which is what led me to acquire the 10ND610.

Big thumbs-up to Jay @ Loudspeakers Plus for providing me with great deals on all the 18 Sound speakers thus far!

Last edited by OscarS; 1st July 2018 at 04:33 AM.
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Old 1st July 2018, 02:46 PM   #10
LewinskiH01 is offline LewinskiH01  Argentina
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Great thread!!

In fact I'm working on a 4-way with dual 10" midbasses and considering the 10NDA610 as midrange from 300 to 2000Hz, so fantastic to see your measurements. High efficiency and almost constant impedance when AIC is engaged makes it look like a great candidate to be driven by a dedicated SET.

BTW, I think the Le of 0.06mH is with AIC engaged. Was your measurement of 0.8mH with or without AIC?

The midbasses I'm working with are Beyma 10G40 to go from 80 to 300Hz. They match your criteria. Any plans to include in your shootout?
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