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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

War of the 10" monster midbasses
War of the 10" monster midbasses
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Old 26th June 2019, 09:37 AM   #91
Sabbelbacke is offline Sabbelbacke  Germany
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OscarS, thank you!
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Old 26th June 2019, 01:24 PM   #92
phase_accurate is offline phase_accurate
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Location: Switzerland
Hi OscarS

That is indeed a lot of work that you did for this comparison.

In order to check for consistency I would at least re-measure one of the drivers that you tested before because your measuring-environment/setup seems to have changed in the meantime (if I got this right).

Regards

Charles
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Old 26th June 2019, 01:50 PM   #93
OscarS is offline OscarS  United States
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Half-right. Only the environment changed, not the setup.
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Old 26th June 2019, 03:24 PM   #94
OscarS is offline OscarS  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmuikku View Post
Yeah 10mc700 distortion looks superior and 10g40 not far behind. I was wondering how much difference there is by ear between all the drivers, do you have a clear winner for your self or multiple (don't have to reveal which)? Offaxis frequency responses would be cool, but thats more work and might be too much to wish for thanks for these already!
What's crazy is that the actual distortion levels are lower in reality, since I accidentally went over the recommended SPL level for those tests. The 10MC700Nd average is likely 10% lower in actuality, as will all the other ones be.
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Old 2nd July 2019, 06:03 AM   #95
ErnieM is offline ErnieM  United States
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Danley is using the (6)10MC700Nd in their new J7 point source box along with the (4)6MCF200Nd.

Nice to see Beyma staying competitve or ahead of the Italian giants.
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Old 4th July 2019, 04:12 PM   #96
OscarS is offline OscarS  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ErnieM View Post
Danley is using the (6)10MC700Nd in their new J7 point source box along with the (4)6MCF200Nd.

Nice to see Beyma staying competitve or ahead of the Italian giants.
Good to see my results do correlate with top-notch products out there! I've read their available white-papers and they do some pretty good R&D in that Spanish factory!. Although I do wonder why they chosen to not implement certain other technologies like silicone-sandwiched spiders or damping compounds within the valley of the surrounds; which is rather surprising given how well they perform!


Quote:
Originally Posted by tmuikku View Post
Yeah 10mc700 distortion looks superior and 10g40 not far behind. I was wondering how much difference there is by ear between all the drivers, do you have a clear winner for your self or multiple (don't have to reveal which)? Offaxis frequency responses would be cool, but thats more work and might be too much to wish for thanks for these already!
As of right now, I am leaning towards the Beyma's. The 10G40 has a smooth response that would need very little xover components, which is very attractive, but the 10MC700Nd is just so clean at what I would already call ear-splitting levels for it's frequency range. But the 10PLB76 is very attractive for the price it can be had! Choices!
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Old 5th July 2019, 03:00 AM   #97
OscarS is offline OscarS  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ErnieM View Post
Danley is using the (6)10MC700Nd in their new J7 point source box along with the (4)6MCF200Nd.

Nice to see Beyma staying competitve or ahead of the Italian giants.
Good to see my results do correlate with top-notch products out there! I've read their available white-papers and they do some pretty good R&D in that Spanish factory!. Although I do wonder why they chosen to not implement certain other technologies like silicone-sandwiched spiders or damping compounds within the valley of the surrounds; which is rather surprising given how well they perform!


Quote:
Originally Posted by tmuikku View Post
Yeah 10mc700 distortion looks superior and 10g40 not far behind. I was wondering how much difference there is by ear between all the drivers, do you have a clear winner for your self or multiple (don't have to reveal which)? Offaxis frequency responses would be cool, but thats more work and might be too much to wish for thanks for these already!
As of right now, I am leaning towards the Beyma's. The 10G40 has a smooth response that would need very little xover components, which is very attractive, but the 10MC700Nd is just so clean at what I would already call ear-splitting levels for it's frequency range. But the 10PLB76 is very attractive for the price it can be had! Choices!

Late edit: Big thanks to Jay @ Loudspeakers Plus for hooking it up with many of these drivers! Fast email communication, best prices, quick delivery (it isn't 2-day Amazon Prime, but it still ships quick, LOL), and of course full warranty as he is an authorized dealer for pretty much all pro audio brands.
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Old 5th July 2019, 07:58 PM   #98
kyleneuron is offline kyleneuron
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The reason they say to keep the level that low for THD tests is to avoid introducing the mic distortions into the data set. The THD values for all drivers other than the recent Beyma are a compound of the driver and mic distortions, so cant really be trusted. Even though conditions were the same, the SPL at each frequency was not, so the distortion from the mic will vary at all frequencies across all drivers. If you can retest, that would be great!
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Old 14th July 2019, 05:12 PM   #99
ElecXover is offline ElecXover
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Some years ago Lynn Olson and Dick Olsher made a BIG deal of the 12 inch Alnico Tone Tubby--implying it's a combination of Alnico Magnet and hemp cone reach a level of performance on par with the very best midbass drivers. However, the 12 TT needs appreciable correction via passive eq. I'd imagine the 10 is perhaps better/smoother but with 2db or so less efficiency. The pros (JBL, 18SOUND, et al) KNOW about engineering magnetic circuit improvements equal to or better than Alnico, so what do THEY also think of hemp cone material and it's a reduced resonant breakup modes? Why aren't they using it also, since it's clearly in the public domain? Beyma does "seem" to be one major pro manufacturer that is into minimal cone breakup--it's Beyma who's published FR curves on a number of its major drivers seem distinctly smoother than the competitions. The 12GA50 (a full range using ferrite but corrected via a copper shorting cap that's smoother and more extended than the TT12), 12G40, 10G40, 10MI100 and others perhaps. The latter Beyma's DON'T use copper shorting though.


As posted Tone Tubby Alnico 12


Driver Properties
Name: TT Alnico 10
Type: Standard one-way driver
Fs = 107.32 Hz
Fsa = 52.36 Hz
BWs = 12.72 Hz
Vas = 24.5 Liters
Cms = 1.28E-04 m/N
Mmd = 16.8 g
MMr = 5.4 g
BL = 6.78 Tesla/m
Efficiency 94.64 dB lw/lm

Qms = 11.13
Qes = 1.58
Qts = 1.39
Re = 6.5 Ohms
Zmaxs = 130.2 Ohms
2.83-V SPL = 94.64 dB
1-W SPL = 95.1 dB
Kr = 0.000
Xr = 0.000
Ki = 0.000
Xi = 0.000
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Old 19th July 2019, 05:35 PM   #100
Machismo is offline Machismo  Finland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyleneuron View Post
Even though conditions were the same, the SPL at each frequency was not, so the distortion from the mic will vary at all frequencies across all drivers. If you can retest, that would be great!
Also some more damping material would be good to add because the distortion from the back wave that is reflecting back from the box and through the cone is not drivers fault.

And if the time is limited, it would be good just at least to test the tree best drivers to find the winner.
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