I noticed a few new clones online today, thought I'd post them:
This is an original B&C 8PE21. Retails for $116 : B&C 8PE21 8" Midrange Speaker
Back in the day, AudioPipe used to sell fairly cheap car audio stuff. Similar to Pyle, many of their drivers were clones of older pro audio stuff. To me, this driver looks a heck of a lot like the B&C 8PE21. Of course, buyer beware; this driver isn't even listed on their web site and good luck finding Thiele Small. It's $40 on Amazon:
Amazon.com: Audiopipe 8" Octo Speaker: Electronics
This is a JBL 2408H. This is one of the JBL ring radiator compression drivers. There are a TON of variations on these:
JBL 2408H-1
JBL 2408H-2
JBL 2409H
And then a slew of similar drivers; many of the compression drivers that JBL uses these days are ring radiators, but almost every speaker uses a different model. It's super confusing.
For a while, when neodymium was cheap, you could get the 2409H-1 for about $60. At that price, I don't think there's anything under $100 that can come close to it. But nowadays it runs about $150. The Celestion CDX1-1425 had a similar history; for a while there it sold for $35! Now it's $100.
Here's the Audiopipe ATQ1000ND. It's not clear if this thing is a straight up clone of one of the JBLs, or if it's something else entirely. Naturally, the catalog doesn't even specify what the diaphragm is.
This is an original B&C 8PE21. Retails for $116 : B&C 8PE21 8" Midrange Speaker
Back in the day, AudioPipe used to sell fairly cheap car audio stuff. Similar to Pyle, many of their drivers were clones of older pro audio stuff. To me, this driver looks a heck of a lot like the B&C 8PE21. Of course, buyer beware; this driver isn't even listed on their web site and good luck finding Thiele Small. It's $40 on Amazon:
Amazon.com: Audiopipe 8" Octo Speaker: Electronics
This is a JBL 2408H. This is one of the JBL ring radiator compression drivers. There are a TON of variations on these:
JBL 2408H-1
JBL 2408H-2
JBL 2409H
And then a slew of similar drivers; many of the compression drivers that JBL uses these days are ring radiators, but almost every speaker uses a different model. It's super confusing.
For a while, when neodymium was cheap, you could get the 2409H-1 for about $60. At that price, I don't think there's anything under $100 that can come close to it. But nowadays it runs about $150. The Celestion CDX1-1425 had a similar history; for a while there it sold for $35! Now it's $100.
Here's the Audiopipe ATQ1000ND. It's not clear if this thing is a straight up clone of one of the JBLs, or if it's something else entirely. Naturally, the catalog doesn't even specify what the diaphragm is.
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A friend of mine buys cheap Chinese made cabinets, and then buys BMS components from me to put in them, bi-amps, and uses DSP. (They usually come with a single capacitor passive, from my memory.) It is cheaper for him to ship here from China, resell through an online source, and dump the crappy speaker components than build a cabinet from scratch.
BMS cone speakers are hard to drop into other cabinets, generally speaking, as the holes for the speaker mounting screws are a larger circumference than other speakers. These cabinets however are ripping off BMS components in their design, so in this case dropping the BMS speakers in is easy.
The components are so crappy that it is not even worth the time to try and sell them on eBay the recoup a few dollars. (Or maybe it is his conscience telling him that.) The cabinet builds are not bad, and look good.
BMS cone speakers are hard to drop into other cabinets, generally speaking, as the holes for the speaker mounting screws are a larger circumference than other speakers. These cabinets however are ripping off BMS components in their design, so in this case dropping the BMS speakers in is easy.
The components are so crappy that it is not even worth the time to try and sell them on eBay the recoup a few dollars. (Or maybe it is his conscience telling him that.) The cabinet builds are not bad, and look good.
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The knockoffs don't bug me so much. For instance, Parts Express sells drivers and waveguides that are straight-up copies.
The thing that gets to me is when companies pass them off as the real thing. For instance, there's a bunch of BMS 4552s on eBay for the past year, and they say BMS, but the price is 60% off. That bugs me, because it makes no sense that the price would be that low unless they're fake or defective. Even used BMS 4552s don't go for $100.
The thing that gets to me is when companies pass them off as the real thing. For instance, there's a bunch of BMS 4552s on eBay for the past year, and they say BMS, but the price is 60% off. That bugs me, because it makes no sense that the price would be that low unless they're fake or defective. Even used BMS 4552s don't go for $100.
P-Audio do this a lot, even using similar model numbers. Here are some others that I noticed a few months ago.
China 12′′neodymium Speaker Coaxial Horn - China Magnet, Permanent Magnet
Clone of the B&C 12HCX76?
China 4" Hf Neodymium Tweeter Speaker Horn Unit - China Tweeter, Speaker Tweeter
JBL 2452HPL clone?
China 2262HPL 12′′ Portable Neodymium Woofer - China Woofer, Neodymium Woofer
Another JBL clone?
China 12′′neodymium Speaker Coaxial Horn - China Magnet, Permanent Magnet
Clone of the B&C 12HCX76?
China 4" Hf Neodymium Tweeter Speaker Horn Unit - China Tweeter, Speaker Tweeter
JBL 2452HPL clone?
China 2262HPL 12′′ Portable Neodymium Woofer - China Woofer, Neodymium Woofer
Another JBL clone?
At least some JBL drivers are made in China, by one of the bigger and better (OEM only) manufacturers.
Quality Control is a key factor. Not everything from China is crap, but it's very hard to find, let alone buy the good stuff as a consumer.
Components are cheap, but shipment isn't, unless you load a container.
Decent clone compression drivers are available for about 1/4-1/8 of the price of the originals, especially of the older the B&C stuff.
DE250: $10-25
DE500: $30-40
DE75/DE85: $35-50
I'd rather buy used originals.
Quality Control is a key factor. Not everything from China is crap, but it's very hard to find, let alone buy the good stuff as a consumer.
Components are cheap, but shipment isn't, unless you load a container.
Decent clone compression drivers are available for about 1/4-1/8 of the price of the originals, especially of the older the B&C stuff.
DE250: $10-25
DE500: $30-40
DE75/DE85: $35-50
I'd rather buy used originals.
I went ahead and bought a pair of Audiopipe ATQ1000ND and disassembled them. They are definitely not clones of anything in the 2408h series - the phase plug, such as it is, isn't close to JBL's design. If you're looking for a 2408h-*, I'd go to Full Compass or Speaker Exchange and pick up one of the ~$50 ones with the JBL logo on it and a major distributor's backing.
Regarding B&C DE250 clones, another relatively cheap route to that might be the B-52 COMP-4CLS compression driver. It's not just a clone of the Celestion CDX1-1745 that some people have called a drop in DE250 replacement, the Celestion and B-52 are actually the same thing - I bought 3 of the B-52s for $20 each and they came with stickers on the side that said "CDX1-1745"! Currently using them as tops with Parts Express's closeout B-52 clones of the QSC HPR152i waveguide and they sound great.
Audiopipe redux
Patrick, it's looking like you were right that the Audiopipe ATQ1000ND may indeed be a JBL clone, just not of anything in the 2407 or 2408 line. I was researching other JBL compression drivers today and happened across the 2414h:
2414h
that is what I meant by the phase plug looking different. Seems to be a very different design - the ATQ/2414h is a mylar dome like that thread mentions. I'm also reposting some of audioheritage user pos's pics of the 2414h here, because they look exactly like the ATQ.
Patrick, it's looking like you were right that the Audiopipe ATQ1000ND may indeed be a JBL clone, just not of anything in the 2407 or 2408 line. I was researching other JBL compression drivers today and happened across the 2414h:
2414h
that is what I meant by the phase plug looking different. Seems to be a very different design - the ATQ/2414h is a mylar dome like that thread mentions. I'm also reposting some of audioheritage user pos's pics of the 2414h here, because they look exactly like the ATQ.
