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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Will my mid/woofer work well in this MLTL enclosure?
Will my mid/woofer work well in this MLTL enclosure?
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Old 11th June 2018, 11:25 PM   #1
pitchinwedge is offline pitchinwedge  United States
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Default Will my mid/woofer work well in this MLTL enclosure?

I erroneously posted my plea for help in the wrong forum section, which has thus far yielded zero responses. So, I'm hoping for better luck here, in the multi-way loudspeaker forum.

Simply, I'd like some idea of how well, or poorly, my driver might perform in a particular enclosure. Freeware enclosure design software I've found online weren't useful for MLTL modeling. I hope I'm not asking too much, but it would be immense if someone with software could help. I'd even be grateful for an educated guess.

The enclosure is the MLTL design from Morel's Moretrix kits. http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com...20MoreTrix.pdf

The T/S parameters of my driver:
T-S.jpg

Thanks in advance!
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Old 12th June 2018, 12:36 PM   #2
ernperkins is offline ernperkins  United States
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Are you planning to redesign the crossover? If the answer is no, here's the designer's answer:

"I get this question a lot, along with “Can I use different drivers and the same crossover and enclosure as this design?” (The answer to this second question is no, by the way.)"
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Old 12th June 2018, 02:17 PM   #3
pitchinwedge is offline pitchinwedge  United States
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Yes, planning on my modifying the x-over.
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Old 12th June 2018, 03:25 PM   #4
pitchinwedge is offline pitchinwedge  United States
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I just realized, the T/S info I provided was for a different driver. The correct info is:

TS correct.jpg

Morel provides T/S specifications for "small signal" and another set of T/S specs for 1V. Not sure which to compare with my own driver, and also not sure how much variance, in which of the variables, would still provide acceptable results.

Morel (small signal) vs Morel (1V) vs My Driver
Fs 45Hz vs 33Hz vs 60Hz
Qts 0.42 vs 0.29 vs 0.62
Qms 4.68 vs 2.47 vs 2.85
Qes 0.47 vs 0.32 vs 0.80
Mms 16.8g vs 16.8g vs 14.2g
Vas 14L vs 29L vs 10-30L

I'm not expecting my driver to magically be a drop-in replacement for the Morel; however, I am hoping it's similar enough. The difference in Qts between the my driver (0.62) and 1V Morel (0.29) makes me think this could be a bad idea. Again, any assistance or guidance about the consequences of the swap would be fabulous.

Otherwise, it seems it may not be possible to get over this hurdle on my own without modeling software. Is there is a good no cost, or low cost option? Thanks again for the help.
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Old 12th June 2018, 04:09 PM   #5
chris661 is offline chris661  United Kingdom
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Hornresp can model it, and it's free.

The relatively high Qts of your driver makes me think it's not going to work too well, but the simulations will tell more.

Chris
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Old 12th June 2018, 05:12 PM   #6
GM is offline GM  United States
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For my records, what is the new driver's brand/model # ?

You compare 'apples to apples' .

Qts' dominates until Vas gets extremely large, ergo not really, the new driver's ~F6 = 40 Hz Vs ~25 Hz with spec'd. optimal tuning, damping according to Hornresp [HR], so basically a bit more mid-bass, then 'dropping like a stone' to a ~identical ~20 Hz F10 in comparison, though if located near/at a corner to boost it could be the better overall choice.

Vb = 20*Vas*Qts^3.3 [note this power can be as low as 2.87 depending on the program]

Qts' = Qts + any added series resistance: mh-audio.nl - Home

HR: Hornresp

GM
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Old 12th June 2018, 06:09 PM   #7
pitchinwedge is offline pitchinwedge  United States
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The driver is a Dynaudio MW160GT. It's from their mobile line, presumably why the Qts is somewhat high. Near wall or corner placement doesn't sound terrible to me at all unless the soundstage depth collapses.

Thanks for the link to Hornresp. I'll check it out!
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Old 12th June 2018, 08:36 PM   #8
pitchinwedge is offline pitchinwedge  United States
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Well, if I've used Hornresp correctly, the MLTL design won't work for my driver.


Below is the freq resp as modeled by HR. It indeed "drops like a stone" under 40hz. I presume the encloure to be a simple 20L box with a very short 2" dia port.

Hornresp model.png
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Old 12th June 2018, 10:09 PM   #9
GM is offline GM  United States
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Hmm, need to reset the frequency response plot for all but true sub system design.........

Input Parameters/Tools/Frequency Range: check box '10-20000 Hz'

Anyway, it's far worse than your sim, which is for a simple reflex plus the MLTL is closer to 37 L.........

Attached is my two Offset Driver [OD] sims to download/import into HR for you to save, make new copies to modify. Note that due to HR not taking any losses into account, the raw sim of any type TL in the Acoustical Power window will typically look hideous, so always view, modify, add stuffing, etc., in the Loudspeaker Wizard, then Save on exit if desired.

GM
Attached Files
File Type: txt Morel638_MLTL.txt (1.0 KB, 8 views)
File Type: txt DA_MW160GT_MLTL.txt (1.0 KB, 7 views)
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Old 13th June 2018, 05:26 PM   #10
pitchinwedge is offline pitchinwedge  United States
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GM, thanks for sending the files. Apparently I hadn't figured out how to use HR correctly at all.

I played around a bit with the MW160GT sim and ended up with the following by removing some fill and changing the port length. At least that's what I think I did. I hope I'm on the right track.
Attached Images
File Type: png MW160GT sim1.png (26.0 KB, 100 views)
File Type: png MW160GT sim2.png (14.8 KB, 99 views)
File Type: png MW160GT sim3.png (11.3 KB, 95 views)
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