This is excellent advice, again 18" pro woofer with low mass and high BxL. I would personally look at the 18Sound 18LW1400 in a closed box of around 100 liters this should give you a tight low reaching bass once it is placed in your room, but you need to be able to do some room EQ. The price is actually pretty decent for that level of quality
Eighteensound 18LW1400 8 Ohm – Thomann UK
dare to respectfully disagree this option
respectfully,
below is a heavy cone, low efficiency, high mms, low FS driver, mid QTS, the $450 Dayton Ultimax.
Inside a 4.2 CF sealed enclosure
Data-Bass
And a Pro audio sub-woofer as mentioned by others as a way to go. the BMS 18N862. Not a cheap one by any means, tested with the same 4.2CF enclosure.
The BMS is the best pro 18" tested by databass (the best one, not the average result...)
Data-Bass
This shall be an easy Kill for the pro 18" right
Not at all
Despite being more efficient than the cheaper Dayton 18" , the BMS only achieve so much maximum long term output.
the Dayton, 106db!!! at 20hz
the BMS, 104db !!! at 20hz
Distortion.
Dayton= 13% at 20hz at 110db
BMS= 23% at 20hz at 110db
I know what I'm shopping for... (and the Mach 5 is way better than the Dayton IMHO)
Of courses, a proper subwoofer (low fs and high mms) won't do any good above 60-100hz. This is the price to pay for better 10-30hz performance.
you must use High BL pro 15" for this 50-300+ hertz range.
too many great choices to mention a specific one here.
I personally like dual 15" way better than single 15" or single 18". It give you the slam you may want.
I use mine from 50-400hz.
And enclosure size matter. Big is way better.
I'll post again tonight my measurement of my mach5 18" in 4CF sealed enclosure vs infinite baffle (more than 10X vas)
the distortion at 20hz is lower in the IB configuration by a factor of 6times! (efficiency is higher too)
Build your sealed box as big as you can or go IB if you can.
respectfully,
below is a heavy cone, low efficiency, high mms, low FS driver, mid QTS, the $450 Dayton Ultimax.
Inside a 4.2 CF sealed enclosure
Data-Bass
And a Pro audio sub-woofer as mentioned by others as a way to go. the BMS 18N862. Not a cheap one by any means, tested with the same 4.2CF enclosure.
The BMS is the best pro 18" tested by databass (the best one, not the average result...)
Data-Bass
This shall be an easy Kill for the pro 18" right
Not at all
Despite being more efficient than the cheaper Dayton 18" , the BMS only achieve so much maximum long term output.
the Dayton, 106db!!! at 20hz
the BMS, 104db !!! at 20hz
Distortion.
Dayton= 13% at 20hz at 110db
BMS= 23% at 20hz at 110db
I know what I'm shopping for... (and the Mach 5 is way better than the Dayton IMHO)
Of courses, a proper subwoofer (low fs and high mms) won't do any good above 60-100hz. This is the price to pay for better 10-30hz performance.
you must use High BL pro 15" for this 50-300+ hertz range.
too many great choices to mention a specific one here.
I personally like dual 15" way better than single 15" or single 18". It give you the slam you may want.
I use mine from 50-400hz.
And enclosure size matter. Big is way better.
I'll post again tonight my measurement of my mach5 18" in 4CF sealed enclosure vs infinite baffle (more than 10X vas)
the distortion at 20hz is lower in the IB configuration by a factor of 6times! (efficiency is higher too)
Build your sealed box as big as you can or go IB if you can.
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Thanks you all for the info. What is this brand of "the box speaker-18-500" -is it Chinese ?
I didn't have a clue that drivers with advertised frequency range of:35-40hz can easily go down to 20Hz -do they do it without any distortion and up to where-50Hz or more ?
Do you think the Dayton 18-22 can really deliver down to 20Hz and up to at least 100Hz without any distortion ?
As far as value for money which driver is the best one including everything you guys mentioned as well as Mach5 (18' or 21') provided it goes down to 20Hz and plays at least up to 100Hz without distortion and is not Chinese ?!
I didn't have a clue that drivers with advertised frequency range of:35-40hz can easily go down to 20Hz -do they do it without any distortion and up to where-50Hz or more ?
Do you think the Dayton 18-22 can really deliver down to 20Hz and up to at least 100Hz without any distortion ?
As far as value for money which driver is the best one including everything you guys mentioned as well as Mach5 (18' or 21') provided it goes down to 20Hz and plays at least up to 100Hz without distortion and is not Chinese ?!
UM18-22: 22 mm Xmax
18N862: 19 mm Xmax
Figures.
But I don't think max output at 20 Hz is exactly end-all-be-all consideration for a driver. Usable bandwidth is IMO more important. While I agree that using "supersubs" with 12" or 15" two or three (or even four) way mains, crossed around 40...50 Hz is one way to do things, if room is limited and your mains can only be 6,5" or 8", then midbass capability of a subwoofer becomes more important to seamlessly integrate the system at 70 to 90 Hz and take the stress off the mains.
As for distortion, ported boxes or TL-s or (tapped)horns are a game-changer compared to a simple sealed box or IB. Those PA subs are not meant for sealed boxes or IB-s, anyway. They're also used in professional cinemas, playing in EQ-d ported boxes down to 25 Hz loud and with low distortion. A good example of a pro cinema sub would be the same 18N862 in a 5,2 cu. ft. box tuned to 25 Hz: Data-Bass Note how THD is dramatically reduced and output increased.
Technofreak,
Very valid point.
Personally, I like the sub to go infra-frequency. (for the sensation it provide)
20hz performance is a good indicator of 10hz or 15hz performance.
If 20hz or 25hz is the end goal, TL or ported is the way to go and the pro subwoofer will do just fine. (given a workable size and it yield to good efficiency)
If 20hz is just the beginning and one add DSP down to maybe 10hz, Sealed or IB is the only valid option left. (reflex at 10hz become insanely big)
Midrange or midbass integration is very important too.
I used to use Scan speak illuminator 12mu and sold them when I've switched to high efficiency midbass (15" pro audio style)
As good as the 12mu was, when crossing to a 98db woofer, it couln't integrate well and I've mover to compression driver midrange....
Below is a mach5 18" in 4CF sealed (orange) and the same mach5 in infinite baffle.
distortion is significantly higher in the sealed system.
Equalization for the sealed to yield 20hz flat require way more boost then the IB one. (do not remember the exact figure but was several dB)
is not only distortion but sound quality
No, I would not use the 18-22 up to 100hz if I could avoid it.
Probably does it with some EQ but "real" woofer would do it way better.
I would limit the 18-22 at around 80hz (and even 60hz if you can)
Same with the mach 5, I cut mine at 50hz even if they can stretch to 60-70hz...
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Well, 20Hz wavelength is 17 meters, so inside your tiny room it can´t even *develop* .
Worry about it when you listen to Sounds (not always Music) in a hangar, train station or full sized Cathedral, which by the way DO have the proper 20Hz generators (plane engine, propellers, steam locomotive, large Diesel engine or full size pipe organ).
How do you explain that I can hear 10khz, 1khz, 100hz and 40hz very easily thru my headphone....
... There are some doors in my house that start visibly vibrating at some notes, doesn't have to be that loud even, they try to flap around if playing louder.
My wife was thoroughly impressed when she noticed the door handle in one room was jumping visibly.
Bass changes when doors and windows are opened and closed. I find it quite interesting that opening a door in another floor can change the sound in the listening spot.
My wife was thoroughly impressed when she noticed the door handle in one room was jumping visibly.
Bass changes when doors and windows are opened and closed. I find it quite interesting that opening a door in another floor can change the sound in the listening spot.
Yes, it's chinese, but the build quality is good. Cast frame, quality terminals, respectably sized magnet, good venting. No extraneous noises when doing high excursion at 20 Hz or below. It only has around 8 mm of usable X-max, but the next step up (10...12 mm X-max) is twice as expensive (Fane Colossus, 18Sound 18LW1400) and it still produces ~110 dB below 30 Hz in my room, with a 300 W amplifier.
These days it's more about DSP and processing than the inherent Thiele-Small parameters. Harmonic distortion is not a problem, see attachment.
Where do you live? In USA you have a wide variety of "supersubs" for reasonable price. In Europe, not so much (this is why I buried the thoughts of "supersubs" early in the design stage when I built mu subwoofer. Importing these would be prohibitively expensive and for future upgrades I can get 18Sound drivers for a very good price). In any case, trying to push these beasts to play above 80, or even 50 Hz, may not be a very good idea. They do shine below 20 Hz, but if you don't need to go that low, in my opinion more traditional woofers are a better choice.
One very interesting driver is 15" SB42FHCL75-6 :: SB Acoustics. This should have no problems playing from 20 to 200 Hz, maybe even 500 Hz. Expensive, though - 430 € in Europe.
Attachments
Personally I’m not a fan of the large mass woofer small box sub concept, every time I have been subjected to this I have thought it was just uninteresting rattling of a room. Although I’m not a pro audio guy, I will admit to being surprised by the bass impact of some pro speakers, something you don’t get with hifi rigs (pro audio highs and to some degree mids is another story)
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On the waitlist for the first production models. Full specs should be available in a few weeks. They said it should work at P.A. levels even though it's marketed for hifi. I'll find out!
For a cheap solution I simulated a mass loaded off set driver QW sub, with JBL GT5-12 (around 100 $). Dayton Audio RSS315HFA-8 12" Reference HF Subwoofer will also work. The box is 150 liters, 2 of these in corners give a respectful output, ca. 125 dB at 16 hz. My friend has build one and confirm it's validity.
Cheers
Cheers
1 driver pr box. JBL and Dayton are better than Peerless for this design. More x-max and stronger motor (BL). Can't really compare a 12" to a 18". Here is the same type of box just bigger (365 liter) with TC Sounds LMS 5400, which is a beast, with more than double the x-max over JBL / Dayton and of course a lot more expensive.
Nice tip thanks. Fi woofers with 33mm Xmax and looks that are deadly. Made in Les Vegas!
That’s a lot of show and no go. A $600+ woofer without shorting rings integrated into the motor! How embarrassing for them.
Admittedly, Fi poisoned my thoughts about them when they reconed my old Ascendant XBL 18 (they were the OEM) and couldn’t bother to align the top gasket with the screw-holes, and rudely dismissed my complaint about their shoddy workmanship. (It was a junk woofer, too. No shorting rings in the motor so it just sounded slow and muddy when crossed above 40 Hz or so.)
The Aura NS18 is probably still the best overall “musical” choice in big subs - gets low and plays well above the subwoofer range, with a very linear underhung motor. The new Peerless XLS replacement looks like an upgrade over the XLS in high powered systems, with a bigger voicecoil and other refinements. The original XLS12+XLS12-PR “application note” sub design still pushes the boundaries of high fidelity bass in a small package.
The real question is whether 2 Peerless 830500 (or any other competent 2*12' drivers) per side can give a better bass than a single 18' driver per side as far as going down to low frequency of: 20hz -100Hz (preferably up to 200Hz) with clean sound and tight bass without any distortion all the way from 20Hz until 100-200Hz ?