Go Back   Home > Forums > >
Home Forums Rules Articles diyAudio Store Blogs Gallery Wiki Register Donations FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11th June 2018, 03:44 PM   #11
hottattoo is offline hottattoo  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Check out Fi audio in Las Vegas (made to order in U.S.A).

These guys have excellent subwoofer drivers---mostly geared to car audio but can make almost anything you need. NOT cheap but a quality product.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th June 2018, 04:04 PM   #12
hottattoo is offline hottattoo  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Another company that makes subwoofers (U.S.A.)---even 24" drivers !!!

sales@stereointegrity.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th June 2018, 04:54 PM   #13
LineSource is offline LineSource  United States
diyAudio Member
 
LineSource's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: SiliconValley
As mentioned earlier.... One philosophy is to construct high quality front stereo speakers with bass down to ~30Hz as measured at the listener using "musical woofers", and add 2 subwoofers like the UN18-22 carefully placed around the room equalized to reduce bass modes. "musical woofer" = modest Mms(<200g), modest Le(<1mH), no cone breakup under 1kHz...

Consider:
1) design the main front stereo speakers using musical 15" - 18" woofers
2) plan to add 1-2 UN18-22 subwoofers with room mode equalization

Dr. Geddes "Consider the low frequency region in a small room. If this room has a small amount of damping it will have a very discrete modal structure with an associated resonant modal sound character. No single source placed in this room would ever sound correct – not dipoles, monopoles, low frequency horns. In essence, the room dominates the situation over the source characteristics making all bass sounds in this region colored and not lifelike. Each mode accentuates the sound level when it is excited and diminishes the level where there are no modes. The sound is either “boomy” or “dead” with no happy medium in between. "
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th June 2018, 05:41 PM   #14
KaffiMann is offline KaffiMann  Norway
diyAudio Member
 
KaffiMann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Grua, ten minute walk from 60.258792, 10.664731
Quote:
Originally Posted by eriksquires View Post
For the record, no woofer is flat in room to 20 Hz. You are going to need significant EQ with any speaker that plays that low. Depending on how the room works out, you could end up cutting output at 20 Hz, or just below, or just above, significantly.

Obviously worth calculating the excursion vs. output levels though.
Just have to mention:
By some insane stroke of luck the in-listening-position frequency response with my 4 x 15" subs is within +/- 2db from 14hz to 90hz, with no eq!
Completely unexpected, was prepared to make a lot of corrections, and expected subs to roll off slow after 26hz.
I think surface displacement is the secret sauce, get enough of it and some room modes just get drowned out....
Most of my in-room trouble is 120-400hz which looks like a skate park though.


The Dayton PA460 seems to want a really big box to deliver, but it's quite good to 24hz (110db/100w/2pi). I think the resistive slot port will help it go lower than simulated.
Still at 260 liters each for the PA460, I'd much rather keep what i have (129 liters internal volume x 4).
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Dayton Audio PA460*8.jpg (387.3 KB, 399 views)

Last edited by KaffiMann; 11th June 2018 at 05:46 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th June 2018, 08:13 PM   #15
Best Hi End is offline Best Hi End
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
many thanks,however those companies only make subwoofers/drivers for cars rather than Hi End Home sets and I've never heard of them in relation to Home Audio ! The stereointegrity brand seems exteremely expensive for car's subwoofer/driver the first one is slightly cheaper,but am clueless about it's qualities and reputation as to Home Hi End drivers in comparison to Radian,Acoustic Elegance ,Precision Devices,Mccauley,BMS,Beyma and even Dayton Audio ?! Are you sure any of them manufacture subwoofer/drivers for home -4-16 Ohm with excellent Fs,Qts,Xmax,high SPL going flat to 20Hz ?
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th June 2018, 09:05 PM   #16
KaffiMann is offline KaffiMann  Norway
diyAudio Member
 
KaffiMann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Grua, ten minute walk from 60.258792, 10.664731
IMO "flat to 20hz" is not the ultimate goal for everyone.
Have you analyzed your music collection?

I found there was little need for much under 26hz, and that was for very good quality piano recordings. Modern music, even quite "bass heavy" stuff does not have a whole lot under 35hz.

I went for a "slow downwards roll of" kind of thing, and it ticks all my boxes, sounds great.
Simulation for: Flat to 40-45hz then slooooow roll off = really nice after the sawdust has settled. Also takes much less space than going for "max output at 20hz".
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th June 2018, 10:54 PM   #17
Diogenes is offline Diogenes  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: WA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Best Hi End View Post
many thanks,however those companies only make subwoofers/drivers for cars rather than Hi End Home sets and I've never heard of them in relation to Home Audio !
The stereointegrity brand seems exteremely expensive for car's subwoofer/driver the first one is slightly cheaper,but am clueless about it's qualities and reputation as to Home Hi End drivers in comparison to Radian,Acoustic Elegance ,Precision Devices,Mccauley,BMS,Beyma and even Dayton Audio ?!
Are you sure any of them manufacture subwoofer/drivers for home -4-16 Ohm with excellent Fs,Qts,Xmax,high SPL going flat to 20Hz ?
Aside from the BM and SHS series, Stereo Integrity's subwoofers are intended for home use. The car audio versions, you could say, would be Sundown Audio's offerings. (The owners of both companies are friends and business partners, so the parts are shared with changes in the voice coils, suspension, moving mass, etc).

I use one of Stereo Integrity's early 24" subs in my home system where it's had no problem outshining other drivers in comparisons I've made including, among many, a TC Sounds driver model that was Magico's choice in their original Q-Sub before TC Sounds went under and a couple of Acoustic Elegance subs (albeit, those were intended for OB use). There's no comparison with Dayton. (B&C's IPAL line would make for a better comparison to add to your list, but not at these lower frequencies.) With room gain, the response I enjoy is flat to 10Hz and likely below, but it's difficult to get accurate measurements below that. Couldn't tell you how loud it can go, though, as I only had a Radio Shack SPL meter handy the day I was having extra fun and pegged the needle full scale at 25Hz. I was so impressed that I picked up a couple of custom 24" units from them to use in some open baffle speakers I'm getting around to building at a glacial pace.

The extra displacement is always nice when I enjoy listening to apparently imaginary music:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg rad.jpg (317.6 KB, 357 views)
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th June 2018, 11:46 PM   #18
friendly1uk is offline friendly1uk  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
I have a commercial bass test CD full of tones and sweeps. The lowest tone on it is 30Hz. At which point my sub hasn't began to loose any volume. So I switch to bass driven music and get the mic out. Most tracks, heavy as they may seem, don't bother recording stuff below 50Hz. It would just suck the power out of the average car or kitchen radio, trying to make noise the speakers can't reproduce. So bringing forward the onset of distortion. Mainstream music needs to work with bookshelf speakers that could have a 70hz F3 or worse. So adding in 20Hz information is detrimental.

It's almost effects driven. I imagine lots of people dream of tort bass down to 20Hz. Isn't it a little unrealistic though, and choosing an 18 a good way of failing before you start. What could be flabbier.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th June 2018, 01:16 AM   #19
etalon90 is offline etalon90  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
etalon90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Trenton,On
lots of music has content below 26hz.

If you listen to electronic, 10hz is not uncommon.
it is felt and create a presence hard to describe, removing it remove a vital element in the experience.

you do not think there is energy down there till you have a system that can do it and realize how much you missed all those years...

to have the effect, one have to listen bit loud, human ear can't hear 20hz unless it is at least ~80db (as per research on ear sensitivity)
since subsonic content is often 20 decibel down in the recording, one have to listen to 100db or so to get the intended effect...

My system was flat to 7hz and capable of significant output. (4x 18" subwoofer)
I think is important enough that I bought 2x more 18" and plan on buying 2 more for a grand total of 8x 18".

house shopping right now...
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th June 2018, 01:37 AM   #20
Bare is offline Bare  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: vancouver
Without mentioning that Human hearing is close to non existent at that level... ie; down 60db at 20 hz.
More than pointless ...despite all Brochure babbles and shills.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
drivers for around 20hz UK daxxy Subwoofers 30 12th November 2014 06:43 PM
flat to 20hz !!?? 60ndown Full Range 6 21st June 2011 06:31 AM
My CHR-70+DSP Linkwitz Transform experiment (4" driver playing flat to 20hz!) tresch Full Range 54 30th May 2010 10:46 PM
Ultimate Full Range flat 20hz to 27khz +/- 1.5db thirdman Multi-Way 8 23rd April 2010 02:50 AM
Flat C drivers Bidule Planars & Exotics 3 21st July 2005 12:07 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 12:47 PM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Resources saved on this page: MySQL 14.29%
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2018 diyAudio
Wiki