has anyone used multichannel HT receivers to power active speakers?
At the moment I am prototyping a 2 Way OB and applying the filtered/equalized line level signal to the multichannel input of a 6.1 channel Onkyo amplifier. It has individual level control for each amplifier, and the master volume of course.
Pity the multichannel input is only 5.1, so I cant access the center back amplifier at the moment. Looking at the amp schematics I have some ideas to access this channel and keep some of the level control as well as the master volume. Further option is to feed the signals directly to the power amplifier board. I saw some HT receivers with 6.1 (or higher) multichannel inputs, so these wouldnt need any hacking.
I know there is a lot of cheap amplifier boards on ebay, but I like the idea of recycling and to already have everything packed in a nice box (with input RCAs, speaker binding posts, level and volume control...)
Anyone has tips and tricks how to reuse these relatively inexpensive (I paid USD 50) "obsolete" receivers in active speakers?
cheers, Erik
At the moment I am prototyping a 2 Way OB and applying the filtered/equalized line level signal to the multichannel input of a 6.1 channel Onkyo amplifier. It has individual level control for each amplifier, and the master volume of course.
Pity the multichannel input is only 5.1, so I cant access the center back amplifier at the moment. Looking at the amp schematics I have some ideas to access this channel and keep some of the level control as well as the master volume. Further option is to feed the signals directly to the power amplifier board. I saw some HT receivers with 6.1 (or higher) multichannel inputs, so these wouldnt need any hacking.
I know there is a lot of cheap amplifier boards on ebay, but I like the idea of recycling and to already have everything packed in a nice box (with input RCAs, speaker binding posts, level and volume control...)
Anyone has tips and tricks how to reuse these relatively inexpensive (I paid USD 50) "obsolete" receivers in active speakers?
cheers, Erik
I was researching this very thing also. I encountered the following device that has decent reviews - Russound-ADP-1-2-Speaker-level-to-Line-level-Adapter
I am not sure how well it works but you could save hundreds of dollars using a lower level receiver without pre-outs. have not bought one yet but plan to try it when I change out my HK 3390 two channel receiver.
I am not sure how well it works but you could save hundreds of dollars using a lower level receiver without pre-outs. have not bought one yet but plan to try it when I change out my HK 3390 two channel receiver.
I do not understand how this relates to my post, so I better explain it better 
For active speakers one needs a lot of individual amplifiers with individually adjustable levels, as well as a general volume control. One generally doesnt need a lot of power (at least I dont). So instead of stacking some stereo amplifiers, which are generally more expensive, I decided to get a 6 channel amplifier (with the level adjustments) to be done with one chassis only.
So I am feeding the 5.1 multichannel inputs with line level signals (at the moment using simple PLLXO) and connecting the drivers directly to the power amplifiers (in my case woofers are fed from Front Left and Right, and widerange Fostex units from the surround L and R).
I think you are looking for a cheaper option to do the whole cinema thing processing, then convert the speaker output to line level and send this to separate amplifiers? This can be done, but it is not what I am doing
For active speakers one needs a lot of individual amplifiers with individually adjustable levels, as well as a general volume control. One generally doesnt need a lot of power (at least I dont). So instead of stacking some stereo amplifiers, which are generally more expensive, I decided to get a 6 channel amplifier (with the level adjustments) to be done with one chassis only.
So I am feeding the 5.1 multichannel inputs with line level signals (at the moment using simple PLLXO) and connecting the drivers directly to the power amplifiers (in my case woofers are fed from Front Left and Right, and widerange Fostex units from the surround L and R).
I think you are looking for a cheaper option to do the whole cinema thing processing, then convert the speaker output to line level and send this to separate amplifiers? This can be done, but it is not what I am doing
Thanks for the reply,
for the moment indeed PLLXO as I need very shallow filters and these are some initial tests. After my holydays I will plug the miniDSP to it to give me more freedom: the principle remains the same though. Input to the multichannel IN, level and volume control in the HT and drivers directly connected to the power stages.
for the moment indeed PLLXO as I need very shallow filters and these are some initial tests. After my holydays I will plug the miniDSP to it to give me more freedom: the principle remains the same though. Input to the multichannel IN, level and volume control in the HT and drivers directly connected to the power stages.
Most upper end AVRs still have multichannel inputs and have preouts for connecting amps. Most of the time they don't go through the DSP, so they stay analog the whole way through the AVR. The OP is talking about using the amps in the AVR, so he only needs multichannel inputs to the AVR. Don't see why it won't work.
Indeed, the feature sets / functionality of surround receivers covers a very wide range, and few are intended to be used exactly as intended here, so it's a crap shoot as to whether / how easily it can be achieved.
Many of the current models easily accommodate passive bi-amping of the front L& R mains (by usurping one pair of amp channels assignable to either that function or front height/width surround), and for a short few product cycles some would allow for full onboard digital XO and active bi-amping. I happen to own one such - Onkyo TX NR818 - and that function works quite well - although not as ultimately flexible as minidsp or any "real" outboard active crossover, it has the tremendous advantage of being controlled / calibrated by the DSP function - ie scroll through the on-screen menus, select the size / configuration of speakers, plug in the calibration mike and let 'er rip - an absolute godsend as far as I'm concerned.
wcwc - I've owned several surround receivers over the past decade or so, and while both previous Denons and my current Onkyo have pre-amp (volume controlled) outputs for as many surround channels as you might want to invoke in the main system with external amps, as well as line outputs assignable for separate zones, I can't ever recall seeing one with multi-channel line inputs that would allow access to the power amp stages of the receiver. I'm curious if that was a feature in older models of which I'm conveniently ignorant, or a conflation?
Many of the current models easily accommodate passive bi-amping of the front L& R mains (by usurping one pair of amp channels assignable to either that function or front height/width surround), and for a short few product cycles some would allow for full onboard digital XO and active bi-amping. I happen to own one such - Onkyo TX NR818 - and that function works quite well - although not as ultimately flexible as minidsp or any "real" outboard active crossover, it has the tremendous advantage of being controlled / calibrated by the DSP function - ie scroll through the on-screen menus, select the size / configuration of speakers, plug in the calibration mike and let 'er rip - an absolute godsend as far as I'm concerned.
wcwc - I've owned several surround receivers over the past decade or so, and while both previous Denons and my current Onkyo have pre-amp (volume controlled) outputs for as many surround channels as you might want to invoke in the main system with external amps, as well as line outputs assignable for separate zones, I can't ever recall seeing one with multi-channel line inputs that would allow access to the power amp stages of the receiver. I'm curious if that was a feature in older models of which I'm conveniently ignorant, or a conflation?
My Marantz receiver has 7.1 channel inputs. It is 5 years old. The current Marantz Models also do. Before the advent of HDMI it was a lot more prevalent in AVRs. There are a bunch of old AVRs without HDMI out there available for dirt cheap that have this capability. On my Marantz the 7.1 channel inputs get sent to the speaker outputs without any processing (too cheap to add 8 channels of ADC). There is volume control, but that is it.
I looked into this as well for my OB active bi-amping. There does not appear to be a receiver or pre-pro (even boutique) that would have bi-amp capabilities such that you could duplicate the left and right channel signals to a pair of unused amplified channels (or even pre-out) AND have full control to apply a high pass AND low pass to the e.g left + right for upper range frequencies and then use the spare surround left + right for low range frequencies. The newer ones definitely won't let you do this as the inbuilt EQ software would be confused. I've even considered using zone 2 where left + right you could have the receiver do a high pass and then zone 2 you could send to woofer amps which have low pass filters - the potential problem as noted by various big name brand distributors was the issue of potential time delays between zone 2 and your primary left + right channels - that might be something that works for you ?
Otherwise you are going to have to get a PLLXO or miniDSP or some line level crossover to split from your source into 4 multi-channel inputs.
Assuming you want OB for left + right and you have a HT setup to keep in the mix (like I do) you can pick up another cheap receiver to drive the left + right after the main receiver output to your analog crossover. I picked up a used AMC 2445a power amp to drive my two way OB's with 45x4 @ 4 Ohms with a miniDSP HD and after some advice from miniDSP (in HK) got the desired outcome and left my 5 channel power amp to drive my center + surrounds. The center will eventually be replaced with an OB but using a passive xover so the extra power from the 5 channel amp will help in overcoming passive losses.
Otherwise you are going to have to get a PLLXO or miniDSP or some line level crossover to split from your source into 4 multi-channel inputs.
Assuming you want OB for left + right and you have a HT setup to keep in the mix (like I do) you can pick up another cheap receiver to drive the left + right after the main receiver output to your analog crossover. I picked up a used AMC 2445a power amp to drive my two way OB's with 45x4 @ 4 Ohms with a miniDSP HD and after some advice from miniDSP (in HK) got the desired outcome and left my 5 channel power amp to drive my center + surrounds. The center will eventually be replaced with an OB but using a passive xover so the extra power from the 5 channel amp will help in overcoming passive losses.
My OB setup with active bi-amping:
I purchased old and cheap Denon AVR-2106 receiver, 7.1 channels.
It already has internal setup for bi-amping, by using the back surround channels in parallel with front channels. But that did not solve the cross-over thing.
So, I ended to make some re-wiring with the front and back channel inputs. I cut the power amp input lines and wired them to back panel, re-using RCA connectors from component video input. Now there is pre-out and power amp in for front and back channel amps, and MiniDSP 2x4HD for cross-over and EQ.
The receiver works completely as original, but of course only up to 5.1 mode. Well, no component video input anymore but...
Completed by couple hours soldering job.
I purchased old and cheap Denon AVR-2106 receiver, 7.1 channels.
It already has internal setup for bi-amping, by using the back surround channels in parallel with front channels. But that did not solve the cross-over thing.
So, I ended to make some re-wiring with the front and back channel inputs. I cut the power amp input lines and wired them to back panel, re-using RCA connectors from component video input. Now there is pre-out and power amp in for front and back channel amps, and MiniDSP 2x4HD for cross-over and EQ.
The receiver works completely as original, but of course only up to 5.1 mode. Well, no component video input anymore but...
Completed by couple hours soldering job.
A (HT) receiver as Amps
Hi, Yes It can be done quite simply.
I use a Marantz 7002 AV receiver in '7.1' bypass mode(i.e. all signals presented to the AV pre-ins are sent directly to the AV amp channels), driven by a pair of XKitz 2-way active crossovers. The XKitz crossovers are driven from a preamp fixed level line out from where I select the required source. Speaker treble and bass drivers use the front and surround back channels. I also have my Oppo 105 feeding the surround channels so I actually have active front and passive surrounds in a 4 channel configuration for surround sound and movies, all from the 7002. The Marantz volume control (or remote) manages all front and surround volume levels. Volume balance between front and rears is adjusted in the Oppo.
Works fine, SQ is really good.
regards
Howard
Hi, Yes It can be done quite simply.
I use a Marantz 7002 AV receiver in '7.1' bypass mode(i.e. all signals presented to the AV pre-ins are sent directly to the AV amp channels), driven by a pair of XKitz 2-way active crossovers. The XKitz crossovers are driven from a preamp fixed level line out from where I select the required source. Speaker treble and bass drivers use the front and surround back channels. I also have my Oppo 105 feeding the surround channels so I actually have active front and passive surrounds in a 4 channel configuration for surround sound and movies, all from the 7002. The Marantz volume control (or remote) manages all front and surround volume levels. Volume balance between front and rears is adjusted in the Oppo.
Works fine, SQ is really good.
regards
Howard
If you have a receiver with HDMI in, you could use a minidsp nanoAVR as a DSP crossover passing the different channels to HDMI out. In this way the signal chain stays digital all the way to the amp
https://www.minidsp.com/products/ht-series/nanoavr-hd
https://www.minidsp.com/products/ht-series/nanoavr-hd
wcwc - thanks for that, I stand corrected - just never ran across it before on any of the units I've owned or set up for family members.
As I alluded above, keeping track of the constantly changing feature set and functionality of every model in all major and minor lines of AVRs/ processorss is a Sisyphean task.
jklow888 - for example, the Onkyo TX NR818 has fairly comprehensive digital crossover / bi-amp function (uses the front height pair amp channels), with 14 pre-selected XO frequencies ranging from 250 to 5000Hz. It also allows for phase inversion of tweeters, and virtual offset position of mid/woofer to tweeters in 1 in increments up to 12" . It has a total of 11 amp channels that can be assigned in a dizzying array of configurations (and this is several years "pre-Atmos") and variable line outs for all of them. No mulit-channel inputs that can directly access the amps in a bypass mode, though.
You can download the owner's manuals for most models now to read very carefully through the operations, the full functionality of which are often glossed over on the summary or even details of features on the websites, and as for finding a salesperson at most big-box stores that would have a clue what you're talking about - well good luck with that.
Have you looked into the Outlaw or Emotiva lines? The Outlaw 976 looks particularly interesting. https://www.outlawaudio.com/products/976.html
As I alluded above, keeping track of the constantly changing feature set and functionality of every model in all major and minor lines of AVRs/ processorss is a Sisyphean task.
jklow888 - for example, the Onkyo TX NR818 has fairly comprehensive digital crossover / bi-amp function (uses the front height pair amp channels), with 14 pre-selected XO frequencies ranging from 250 to 5000Hz. It also allows for phase inversion of tweeters, and virtual offset position of mid/woofer to tweeters in 1 in increments up to 12" . It has a total of 11 amp channels that can be assigned in a dizzying array of configurations (and this is several years "pre-Atmos") and variable line outs for all of them. No mulit-channel inputs that can directly access the amps in a bypass mode, though.
You can download the owner's manuals for most models now to read very carefully through the operations, the full functionality of which are often glossed over on the summary or even details of features on the websites, and as for finding a salesperson at most big-box stores that would have a clue what you're talking about - well good luck with that.
Have you looked into the Outlaw or Emotiva lines? The Outlaw 976 looks particularly interesting. https://www.outlawaudio.com/products/976.html
The problem is you don't get separate left + right low pass controls for your woofers (assuming you want to do a simple two way). I've read many manuals and called around to all the distributors talking to technical product managers and that is the one thing missing. The units with dual woofer output will sum the L+R which is a real shame - if you had the option to have left to left subout and right to right subout (.1 tracks would be summed to both) then you could do all of this in a receiver and just split the woofer preout to your OB and if needed to actual sub-woofer units to use those low pass filters for the final bottom end control for movies. Product managers agree this is a feature that could be easily implemented but the %tage of owners using this would be small so that is unlikely to happen.
As for hardware, I still use my Emotiva UMC-1 (yes it is still in full working order after all these years !) but with full range output for the L+R output to the miniDSP with increased output done in the UMC-1 and/or Oppo 83 to feed a high enough SNR to the miniDSP HD before the AMC 2445a which (thankfully) has input gain controls compared to my Emo XPA-5 which doesn't.
FYI - also came across this today as an alternative to miniDSP at the same price point:
Dayton Audio DSP-408 4x8 DSP Digital Signal Processor for Home and Car Audio
While no input EQ or REW EQ import integration, you can do 2-way or 3-way and bring in subs for a stereo setup. I would love to have tried this ahead of the miniDSP HD so I could opt to use my sub for < 30hz but I am all done with that part of my project ...
As for hardware, I still use my Emotiva UMC-1 (yes it is still in full working order after all these years !) but with full range output for the L+R output to the miniDSP with increased output done in the UMC-1 and/or Oppo 83 to feed a high enough SNR to the miniDSP HD before the AMC 2445a which (thankfully) has input gain controls compared to my Emo XPA-5 which doesn't.
FYI - also came across this today as an alternative to miniDSP at the same price point:
Dayton Audio DSP-408 4x8 DSP Digital Signal Processor for Home and Car Audio
While no input EQ or REW EQ import integration, you can do 2-way or 3-way and bring in subs for a stereo setup. I would love to have tried this ahead of the miniDSP HD so I could opt to use my sub for < 30hz but I am all done with that part of my project ...