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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

SEAS MR18 3-way
SEAS MR18 3-way
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Old 25th November 2018, 03:18 PM   #21
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
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Resonance treatment day

I put some synthetic felt pads on the edge of woofer's cone and measured the on-axis response. I call this success, 6dB reduction of 4kHz peak and only 1dB attenuation below 1kHz. Gotta find some black or grey pads...

Made some eq and a 3kHz LR2 xo. I am happy with this, room decay is usually longer around 2-4kHz which compensates extra directivity. Easy to fix sound signature with low Q eq too.

I will order Hypex Fusion amps soon and go on with bass box next week. I will put the amp on piece of board that fits the spit in the tube. The amp's plate has vents which will be blocked. Now I think that I will dress the cylinder with Marimekko Unikko cloth!

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Last edited by Juhazi; 25th November 2018 at 03:31 PM.
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Old 26th November 2018, 07:34 PM   #22
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
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Black felt pads attached
Both drivers attached on bowls, bottom bowls planed to fit
Wooden legs for the speakers ordered
Hypex FA123 amps ordered
Jantzen Audio CrossCap 8.5uF caps ordered
SEAS alu tweeters ordered for testing Seas T18 koaksiaalielementin vaihtodiskantti, alumiinikalotti (mitataan ennen lahetysta) - Hifitalo

While waiting for deliveries I must make panels for amplifiers and fit them and top and bottom plates, then apply white matte paint on tubes.

Pics
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Last edited by Juhazi; 26th November 2018 at 07:45 PM.
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Old 29th November 2018, 03:43 PM   #23
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
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Amps, tweeters and caps arrived. I purchased also some more plywood and 4-pole Neutrik connectors for the ball. The textile tweeter of MR18 has a copper ring unlike T18. It is glued on tight, I'll soon run some test how the mid and tweeter perform with the new alu-tweeter attached without the ring. I have some copper plates in the storage room so I can cut rings if needed.

Tomorrow I'll have a day off from work and start cutting some wood!

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Last edited by Juhazi; 29th November 2018 at 03:48 PM.
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Old 29th November 2018, 08:30 PM   #24
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
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Oops, I broke the unattached tweeter when trying to get the copper sleeve off. Must try to get replacement drivers... Aluminium T18 tweeters have less distortion but more ragged response obviously because the membrane sits more deeply in the throat of the cone.

LR2 at 3kHz seems to work just fine. Lower xo around 2-300Hz LR2 should work well too. I have been thinking about drilling holes on the backside bowl, or setting a large vent to make it a bad dipole and to get cardioid response around xo. This test will be done with the MT ball on the bass pole later on. I have one extra bowl for testing!

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Old 30th November 2018, 06:26 AM   #25
stretchneck is offline stretchneck  United Kingdom
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Great work - what are you planning with regards to time and minimum phase?
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Old 30th November 2018, 07:04 AM   #26
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
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^Thanks! Whatever comes with acoustic LR2 crossovers and a closed box woofer! At this moment I don't even dream of FIR, and Hypex Filter Design does't support it.

The New Hypex Fusion Plate amps
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Old 2nd December 2018, 08:52 PM   #27
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
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Women come from Venus, but Hypex Filter Design and it's Help come from *nus!

I have spent about six hours of my and family's precious holiday time to get the FA board working and to start making xo. I have printed and read the HFD instructions, read the homepage (very poor) and read discussions at several forums. Installed ASIO4ALL driver, set in- and output correct, downloaded preset1 to the ampboard, but not a hiss!

The instructions are the worst I have ever read. Period.

There is no functional logic at all. At page 4 is chapter "Load measurements for speaker" but how can I have them because the amp is not even functional? Obviously I must first use some other amp and measurement system to get started and to get those spl or impulse .txt files. Why don't they say that directly????? What parameters and how should I name them?

Then later at page 5 tells to fill in your biquads and then "Load filter to DSP" ((Easy for you to say that!)

Graphical filter design starts at page 14, and it shows the downloded measurements per channel without saying how they came there.

Then finally at page 30 it starts telling about measurements "When your computer has recording capabilities.." without specifying the criteria for that. Then tells about ASIO settings. No instructions about how to set mic for measurements and what IR gating the program uses, only smoothing can be adjusted.

Obviously I must disconent the FA123 board and take measurements with REW, minidsp and some other amp to get started and to have something to load to the board.

Hypex should consult someone with at least some educational understanding to write the instructions and UI. If every discussion forum gets filled with questions about mute boards and simple basics to get started, the reputation and business gets ruined. I still want to believe that this is a good produt technically, only the UI and instructions are a catastrophe.
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Old 2nd December 2018, 10:32 PM   #28
Zvu is offline Zvu  Serbia
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I wanted to buy FA123 boards but when i read problems people are countering i decided that i'll wait a bit to see if Hypex will fix it.
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Old 3rd December 2018, 09:31 AM   #29
kimmosto is offline kimmosto  Finland
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I have few FA253s. 1 of 3 units was okay, one broken in two weeks and model ID wasn't programmed to one unit, but that was quite easy to fix with help of technical support.

New Filter Designer is more difficult than older version for UcD and PSC. I wouldn't say that it's from *nus. Primarily just different than some others, and requires experience or compatible thinking. Challenge for Hypex is to support many/all different models. I needed manual for one thing: to figure out how to switch BTL/SE modes so that something really happens. Rebooting of amp wasn't entirely logical imo.

Flat responses are default and mute works via main/ctrl window, so amp supports measurement of raw responses as any other device.

Measurements need usually (always at home) some processing; baffle loss simulation and merging of far and near, so valid speaker simulator or good measurement software is helpful. REW alone is not adequate for that. Simulators such as VCAD support filter types and responses of Hypex, so simulation is one method to create filter setup and add biquads without loading measurements to Filter Designer at all. Or you could design everything initially with simulator and load axial responses to Filter Designer for final tuning of filter parameters. But I guess that you would not do this...

Last edited by kimmosto; 3rd December 2018 at 09:33 AM.
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Old 3rd December 2018, 01:07 PM   #30
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
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I found the mute button and I tried to make sweep, there was a red line growing a little but no sound, the it halted. Had both L and R RCA-cable connected and RCA input forced.

Nice to know that there should be flat responses downloaded! I will try it again before disconnecting, after I regain my normal mental status... This learnig process is very exhausting anyway and whole family suffers, including my dear dog Willa!

REW can make biquads for Hypex boards too, I think. But like kimmosto knows, I am just a simple country boy who rejects proper simulations and likes to climb to a tree with bottom first
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