Go Back   Home > Forums > >
Home Forums Rules Articles diyAudio Store Blogs Gallery Wiki Register Donations FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

New SB Satori coax
New SB Satori coax
Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 15th May 2018, 04:31 AM   #11
5th element is offline 5th element  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
5th element's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: England
Quote:
Originally Posted by augerpro View Post
This reminds me I forgot to type my main point: that the baffle won't matter anymore with a "waveguide" tweeter like in this coax. That is the big advantage IMHO.

Would be nice to see something in SB's 16cm size though.
An MR13P coax would only require a 3.5kHz xover for a decent directivity match with its coaxial tweeter. This is something even small 19mm domes can do, so hopefully it could have decent sensitivity.

An MR16P coax could work with a 2.5-2.8kHz xover frequency, still within the realm of a good 19mm dome.

If SB could fit their 22mm dimple dome onto a small neo motor and whack it into the voice coil of those two they'd be onto a winner. Hopefully with better sensitivity too.
__________________
What the hell are you screamin' for? Every five minutes there's a bomb or somethin'! I'm leavin! bzzzz! Now with website! www.5een.co.uk under construction.
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th May 2018, 04:43 AM   #12
5th element is offline 5th element  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
5th element's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: England
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottG View Post
-that's sounds (looks) about right. But that's 4 ohms.

Depressing (litterally) IMO.
Indeed Scott, it is depressing

Although to be fair it's in line with most other speakers of its size, you cannot get something for nothing. I mean that would be a full bafflestep 88dB 4 ohm speaker, or 85dB 8 ohm. Built as a 2 way that's in line with, and actually better than, a lot of other 6-7" + 1" two ways.

A full BSC design with SBs Satori MW19P would = 83dB, with a SEAS Excel magnesium cone 80-82dB, Scanspeaks top drivers 79-83dB.

Doesn't look so bad when you compare it to those. Of course they'll probably give you more bass but stick the coax in a small sealed box and use it along side a decent small sub...I'd take that vs any standard 6-7" + standard 1" dome. If SB have done their job right the woofer on the coax will have stellar HD performance and by the looks of things the flat, corrugated surround, actually helps with the usual surround resonance issue present in all the other Satori drivers.
__________________
What the hell are you screamin' for? Every five minutes there's a bomb or somethin'! I'm leavin! bzzzz! Now with website! www.5een.co.uk under construction.
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th May 2018, 04:46 AM   #13
5th element is offline 5th element  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
5th element's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: England
Quote:
Originally Posted by augerpro View Post
This reminds me I forgot to type my main point: that the baffle won't matter anymore with a "waveguide" tweeter like in this coax. That is the big advantage IMHO.
Exactly, this is often overlooked when considering waveguides, the help they provide with giving freedom from cabinet edge diffraction.
__________________
What the hell are you screamin' for? Every five minutes there's a bomb or somethin'! I'm leavin! bzzzz! Now with website! www.5een.co.uk under construction.
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th May 2018, 06:36 AM   #14
Mario Pankov is offline Mario Pankov  Europe
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sofia
New SB Satori coax
I think a coaxial version of their MR (midrange) line would be better off.
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th May 2018, 06:42 AM   #15
Mario Pankov is offline Mario Pankov  Europe
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sofia
New SB Satori coax
Quote:
Originally Posted by augerpro View Post
that the baffle won't matter anymore with a "waveguide" tweeter like in this coax..
I believed that too and a wg does reduce diffraction but it doesn`t eliminate it, well, at least the shallow types. I recently build a medium sized 2-way using Monacor drivers and with a xover point of 2Khz LR2 and an insignificant roundover of 1/2", there was a good 3db bump at 1.2Khz caused by the tweeter. I bought some more of these waveguides (it sounds really nice) and will carry on experiments very soon as to what extent it does affect edge diffraction. Perhaps if its more narrow, it will eliminate it but then it will offset the tweeter too much in the z-axis. I`ll try to carry on some experiemtns on edge rounding too as there`s still a debate if smaller radiuses do provide any audible benefits (yesterday got a massive 7/8" Freud roundover bit which costed an arm and a leg...).
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th May 2018, 12:48 PM   #16
TMM is offline TMM  Australia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Australia
Send a message via AIM to TMM
Quote:
Originally Posted by augerpro View Post
OTOH, a typical tweeter on a typical baffle will have well more than 3dB dip somewhere between 2-4khz.
A bit of variation around 2-4kHz is often easy to fix though as you can just alter the Q of the highpass filter to suit. A dip at 7kHz is somewhat more difficult to fix. The most logical thing to do is bring down everything below 7kHz with a low Q filter but that really trashes the sensitivity.

FWIW: On a 9" wide baffle, with careful placement of a 1" dome tweeter you can achieve about +2-3dB at around 1kHz and virtually flat (+/-1dB max) above that. A good rule of thumb is golden ratios between the distance from the centre of the tweeter to the left, right and top edges of the baffle i.e. 1:1.618:1.618^2. Zaph's ZD5 shows this with it's offset tweeter placement:
http://www.zaphaudio.com/ZD5-measure...P-rawinbox.gif

Last edited by TMM; 15th May 2018 at 12:51 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th May 2018, 04:05 PM   #17
augerpro is offline augerpro  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMM View Post
A bit of variation around 2-4kHz is often easy to fix though as you can just alter the Q of the highpass filter to suit. A dip at 7kHz is somewhat more difficult to fix. The most logical thing to do is bring down everything below 7kHz with a low Q filter but that really trashes the sensitivity.
If you imagine that whatever the diffraction signature of a baffle is on-axis, it will become the inverse (nearly) as you move off axis. So you can see that if you use the filter Q to make that on-axis dip flat, you will have produced a very large bump off axis, because the diffraction character is already causing a bump rrelative to the on-axis response. This can happen pretty rapidly, by 20 degrees, so that the entire "first reflections" have a pronounced woofer dip/ tweeter hump.

So from my POV the question then becomes, if you are going to have a power response anomaly either way, where is more acceptable? My personal preference would be to have a smooth 2-4khz area over a smooth 7-10khz. YMMV.

And in this case adding to that a concentric, time aligned, point source, this will definitely do a lot of important things very right.

Offsetting can work well as you mention, I just don't care for asymmetric radiation in principle, so I try to avoid. Besides it is critical to measure and model off axis when you do this, and almost no one does.
__________________
~Brandon
DriverVault Soma Sonus

Last edited by augerpro; 15th May 2018 at 04:07 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 16th June 2018, 02:25 PM   #18
sfdoddsy is offline sfdoddsy  New Zealand
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Australia
I currently use (and love) the Seas C18 coax in an open baffle and this piques my interest for a second system.

Any idea when it comes out and price?
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th May 2019, 09:02 AM   #19
astrojet is offline astrojet
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Did this ever make it to production?
  Reply With Quote

Reply


New SB Satori coaxHide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Satori Mid vs SS Mid jimbones Multi-Way 24 13th December 2016 05:05 PM
Satori MW16P-4 gornir Multi-Way 27 5th May 2016 05:57 PM
4 or 8 ohm Satori for a 2-way? Bill poster Multi-Way 16 27th September 2014 01:21 AM
Satori's price cut? Bill poster Multi-Way 0 8th July 2014 11:34 AM
If you use the SPDIF/coax output of your DAC, and plug into the SPDIF/coax input of ag8908 Digital Line Level 6 27th March 2014 11:11 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 08:49 AM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Resources saved on this page: MySQL 14.29%
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2019 diyAudio
Wiki