Hi guys , nice forum u have here :d ( sorry for my english )
Finaly i got some cash to build a loudspeakers , im super newbie at this , but the option of buying one is just not for me .Im trying to make a 3 way old school speakers ( old dream ) . After reading alot of stuff last week , and using some of the DIY Audio & Video calculators , result for my woofer boxes ~ 47 liters ( speaker displacement 0.8 liters ) , and if i have to separet mid thats another ~ 11 liters ( 0.14 mid speaker displacement ) , total loudspeaker box volume of 58 liters . Also my port size are Dv=75mm , Lv=250mm
Speakers drivers im gona use are :
Woofer Dayton audio RS225-8
Mid Dayton audio RS125P-8
tweeter Dayton audio DC28FS-8
This Volume is looking HUGEEEe to me, i though thats gona be a bookshelf speakers , but now is looking more like floorstanding.
Im not sure where i did a mistake , is this volume make any sens to you ?
Finaly i got some cash to build a loudspeakers , im super newbie at this , but the option of buying one is just not for me .Im trying to make a 3 way old school speakers ( old dream ) . After reading alot of stuff last week , and using some of the DIY Audio & Video calculators , result for my woofer boxes ~ 47 liters ( speaker displacement 0.8 liters ) , and if i have to separet mid thats another ~ 11 liters ( 0.14 mid speaker displacement ) , total loudspeaker box volume of 58 liters . Also my port size are Dv=75mm , Lv=250mm
Speakers drivers im gona use are :
Woofer Dayton audio RS225-8
Mid Dayton audio RS125P-8
tweeter Dayton audio DC28FS-8
This Volume is looking HUGEEEe to me, i though thats gona be a bookshelf speakers , but now is looking more like floorstanding.
Im not sure where i did a mistake , is this volume make any sens to you ?
No, that seems about right...the cube root( a plain cube shaped enclosures worth of volume) of 0.387 Meters by 0.387 meters per side...
I would bet your F3 response( lowest frequency rolling off to minus 3 decibels)...is going to be good.
You can adjust the height to width to depth ratios to whatever you deem pleasant to the eye (within reason).
Don't worry & trust the math.
PS, you need to drop down the port diameter to some 45mm or so, port length will follow(shorten), but watch port velocity so it doesn't get too fast.
----------------------------------------------------------------Rick.........
I would bet your F3 response( lowest frequency rolling off to minus 3 decibels)...is going to be good.
You can adjust the height to width to depth ratios to whatever you deem pleasant to the eye (within reason).
Don't worry & trust the math.
PS, you need to drop down the port diameter to some 45mm or so, port length will follow(shorten), but watch port velocity so it doesn't get too fast.
----------------------------------------------------------------Rick.........
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Please note that woofer cabinet calculators are not calculators, but simulate the frequency response for a given (user input) box volume and port dimensions. The values they come up with are for a theoretically flat frequency response, which is just one of the properties to optimize a box for. Another one is a reasonable size as you came up with. 
Here's a few box sizes to show what happens. As you can see, reducing box volume decreases low bass and increases upper bass a bit. The first one is your suggestion. That 75 mm port diameter is necessary, port air velocity already goes to 19 m/s with 50 watts input.
Another point: how are you going to design the crossover?
Here's a few box sizes to show what happens. As you can see, reducing box volume decreases low bass and increases upper bass a bit. The first one is your suggestion. That 75 mm port diameter is necessary, port air velocity already goes to 19 m/s with 50 watts input.
Another point: how are you going to design the crossover?
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With the 225’s if you make the box 20mm wider either side, you get 265mm wide. Most floor standers are about 1m tall. This would give a depth of about 30cm using 20mm thick panels which is quite a decent sized floor standers in the more modern slim/tall style.
Here’s a large stand mount using the same woofer and tweeter as an example
Speaker Design Works
There are plans for a floor standing transmission line version aswell.
Here’s a large stand mount using the same woofer and tweeter as an example
Speaker Design Works
There are plans for a floor standing transmission line version aswell.
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thanks guys , so i can go down with the volume , but losing some of the low end . gona try to get as close as i can to this . My totall volume is 58 lit for best result is that correct ? and the mids box is completley sealed right?
I dont know what im gona do with crossover for now , thats a very problematic part for me ( but i can solder it ).I wana get clean bass for electronic music mostly , thinking cuting around 400hz and 2000hz , but thats can be wrong .
Friend told me to downlaod VituixCAD and i did , but there is too much stuff and got confused atm , gona take time i guess.
Thanks for this speaker design it look very close to how i imagine mine shoud be
I dont know what im gona do with crossover for now , thats a very problematic part for me ( but i can solder it ).I wana get clean bass for electronic music mostly , thinking cuting around 400hz and 2000hz , but thats can be wrong .
Friend told me to downlaod VituixCAD and i did , but there is too much stuff and got confused atm , gona take time i guess.
Thanks for this speaker design it look very close to how i imagine mine shoud be
According to the Parts Express website (Dayton Audio RS225-8 8" Reference Woofer) the box volume can be smaller;
Vented Volume = 1.26 ft.³
Vented F3 = 36 Hz
Dayton Audio says this (Dayton Audio RS225-8 8" Reference Woofer 8 Ohm);
OPTIMUM CABINET SIZE *
Sealed Volume 0.44 ft.³
Sealed F3 66 Hz
Vented Volume 1.17 ft.³
Vented F3 38 Hz
* Enclosure volume/F3s based on BassBox "optimum" calculations
Vented Volume = 1.26 ft.³
Vented F3 = 36 Hz
Dayton Audio says this (Dayton Audio RS225-8 8" Reference Woofer 8 Ohm);
OPTIMUM CABINET SIZE *
Sealed Volume 0.44 ft.³
Sealed F3 66 Hz
Vented Volume 1.17 ft.³
Vented F3 38 Hz
* Enclosure volume/F3s based on BassBox "optimum" calculations
When you go three way, you do that because you want to extend the bass response. It's when a 5-6" mid-woofer isn't enough.
A two way system with 5-6" mid-woofer is the typical bookshelf or nearfield monitor, although there are plenty of bookshelf two way systems with 8" woofers (KEF Corelli is one I know and have listened to).
Such systems range in enclosure volume between 5-6 and 20lt (roughly).
For a 3 way system, the 8" woofer as a minimum is typical and that needs more volume to tune low. Less when you use a ported system compared to sealed, but 30-40lt is usually a minimum. The 58lt simulation you made doesn't sound bad.
But, as you also have a midrange which needs it's own enclosed volume (of a few lt) you need to allow that space inside the enclosure and add the external size of the midrange enclosure to the total cabinet size.
Also, as the enclosure volume increases, bracing becomes a must and the planks of wood also take some space, but not much, say 2-3lt.
So make sure you don't calculate the enclosure dimensions based on the load volume required for the woofer alone. Add all the other volumes of elements, not forgetting the port tube as well, to end up with the total volume and calculate dimensions from there.
In general, it is better to have a front baffle as narrow as possible, without compromising rigidity (leave an inch of baffle to the sides of the woofer), have the drivers aligned vertically and place them as close to each other as possible, especially the tweeter and midrange. Also, there are some practical rules in dimension ratios, much like room acoustics, to help distribute enclosure modes as wide as possible. The following are copied from an older post here:
golden ratios
1 : 1.14 : 1.39
1 : 1.26 : 1.59
1 : 1.28 : 1.54
1 : 1.44 : 2
1 : 1.60 : 2.33
1 : 1.62 : 2.63
A two way system with 5-6" mid-woofer is the typical bookshelf or nearfield monitor, although there are plenty of bookshelf two way systems with 8" woofers (KEF Corelli is one I know and have listened to).
Such systems range in enclosure volume between 5-6 and 20lt (roughly).
For a 3 way system, the 8" woofer as a minimum is typical and that needs more volume to tune low. Less when you use a ported system compared to sealed, but 30-40lt is usually a minimum. The 58lt simulation you made doesn't sound bad.
But, as you also have a midrange which needs it's own enclosed volume (of a few lt) you need to allow that space inside the enclosure and add the external size of the midrange enclosure to the total cabinet size.
Also, as the enclosure volume increases, bracing becomes a must and the planks of wood also take some space, but not much, say 2-3lt.
So make sure you don't calculate the enclosure dimensions based on the load volume required for the woofer alone. Add all the other volumes of elements, not forgetting the port tube as well, to end up with the total volume and calculate dimensions from there.
In general, it is better to have a front baffle as narrow as possible, without compromising rigidity (leave an inch of baffle to the sides of the woofer), have the drivers aligned vertically and place them as close to each other as possible, especially the tweeter and midrange. Also, there are some practical rules in dimension ratios, much like room acoustics, to help distribute enclosure modes as wide as possible. The following are copied from an older post here:
golden ratios
1 : 1.14 : 1.39
1 : 1.26 : 1.59
1 : 1.28 : 1.54
1 : 1.44 : 2
1 : 1.60 : 2.33
1 : 1.62 : 2.63
Then I suggest you start with an already designed loudspeaker. It is quite difficult to design a crossover yourself. With a pre-made design, you can still try it but you have something to fall back on if it does not work out.
A few collections of designs (some require you to buy the magazine for details):
Cheap Trick Cheap Tricks
Klang + Ton High-End Workshop
Hobby Hifi Hobby HiFi
Zaph Audio Zaph|Audio - ZDT3.5
Visaton 3-Way Speakers | Visaton
The TBTL post is the right answer, don't look any further. There isn't a perfect box and tuning for a specific woofer, you have to choose the compromise that works better for you.
Newbie and (designing a) 3 way don't go together well. The box volume is the smallest problem you have to solve. I really suggest you to choose a published design done by a reputable speaker designer and build that. Otherwise you will likely waste your money in a bad sounding speaker.
I'm pretty sure you can find designs with one or more of the drivers you want to use.
Ralf
Newbie and (designing a) 3 way don't go together well. The box volume is the smallest problem you have to solve. I really suggest you to choose a published design done by a reputable speaker designer and build that. Otherwise you will likely waste your money in a bad sounding speaker.
I'm pretty sure you can find designs with one or more of the drivers you want to use.
Ralf
i know newbie and 3 way dont kinda fit , but i dont wana wait to make 10 pairs of 2 way to go to the 3 . The problem is that they all get to big , and my room is small ( probably gona expand soon ) . Yes im searching for a 3 way design wich i like , Speaker Design Works the mid driver price . Also some 2 ways catch my eyes and they will be much eazier to make , dont know why but i dont like 2way with small woofer driver , currently looking for 8 inch ,but if i have to pay 200usd for mids then cancel the 3 way thingy
after all , im not in a hurry . everything over 500mm H and 350mm W will be hard to fit ( for now )
. The problem is that they all get to big , and my room is small ( probably gona expand soon ) . Yes im searching for a 3 way design wich i like , Speaker Design Works the mid driver price . Also some 2 ways catch my eyes and they will be much eazier to make , dont know why but i dont like 2way with small woofer driver , currently looking for 8 inch ,but if i have to pay 200usd for mids then cancel the 3 way thingy after all , im not in a hurry . everything over 500mm H and 350mm W will be hard to fit ( for now )
I have always avoided multi way speakers and cross overs.
I have mostly gone for full range drivers in one or multiples.
Getting a crossover right with certain speakers needs equipment to get it right and lots of experimentation.
Fane do some good full range drivers up to around 17KHz.
I use a pair of Fane 12-250TC in a sealed box with very good results.
I have mostly gone for full range drivers in one or multiples.
Getting a crossover right with certain speakers needs equipment to get it right and lots of experimentation.
Fane do some good full range drivers up to around 17KHz.
I use a pair of Fane 12-250TC in a sealed box with very good results.
Did you see the statement monitor on the jim holtz site.
Smaller woofer (rs180) but actually that driver does not give away much 225. The w4-1337 is more affordable but that is offset by the ribbon tweeter I guess. Smaller box but similar performance to the finalist.
Statements_Monitor
To be honest getting a 3 way with an 8” driver under 500mm tall is vary difficult.
20mm min from edge, 225 woofer, 10mm gap, 100-125mm driver, 10mm gap, 100mm tweeter, 20mm from edge = 485-510mm but I don’t think the 20mm top and bottom is ideal.
Smaller woofer (rs180) but actually that driver does not give away much 225. The w4-1337 is more affordable but that is offset by the ribbon tweeter I guess. Smaller box but similar performance to the finalist.
Statements_Monitor
To be honest getting a 3 way with an 8” driver under 500mm tall is vary difficult.
20mm min from edge, 225 woofer, 10mm gap, 100-125mm driver, 10mm gap, 100mm tweeter, 20mm from edge = 485-510mm but I don’t think the 20mm top and bottom is ideal.
i realy like this STARLET | Visaton, but if i can cut around 20-30cm from the Hight they gona be my thing . Is there any chance of reducing the volume , by using one more port or something .i can make box more wide and deep , but not gona change much . If this is possible i can use their crossover design . Also the price is good.
The suggested box for the Starlet is rather flimsy.
A classic 3-way is the following: SEAS-3-Way-Classic
There are IMHO some strange choices for the crossover components that when corrected can lead to a slightly lower cost.
If you want an horizontal placed speaker: Bookshelf-3WC
Quality drivers cost, an 8" woofer is relatively expensive, and a 3-way cost much more than a 2-way. If you can live with a 2-way with an 8" mid-bass here is a design that IMHO is done very well: Suzie „Q“ – Heissmann Acoustics
Ralf
A classic 3-way is the following: SEAS-3-Way-Classic
There are IMHO some strange choices for the crossover components that when corrected can lead to a slightly lower cost.
If you want an horizontal placed speaker: Bookshelf-3WC
Quality drivers cost, an 8" woofer is relatively expensive, and a 3-way cost much more than a 2-way. If you can live with a 2-way with an 8" mid-bass here is a design that IMHO is done very well: Suzie „Q“ – Heissmann Acoustics
Ralf
i found this in partexpress for the Visaton woofer wich is used in STARLET
"Note: For best bass performance, install the W200S into one of the following cabinets:
• A 0.53 cubic foot sealed cabinet (F3 will be 70 Hz with a Qtc of 0.7).
• A 0.71 cubic foot cabinet tuned to 45 Hz with a 2" diameter port that is 5-1/2" long.
• A 1.06 cubic foot cabinet tuned to 39 Hz with a 2" diameter port that is 4-3/8" long.
• A 1.77 cubic foot cabinet tuned to 33 Hz with a 2-1/2" diameter port that is 5-1/8" long."
the 1.06 cubic foot is fine , i saw this 3 way Seas and they look cool probably sound amazing , but the price ...
Also delivery can be pricey ,its a bit hard to find this kind of quality drivers in Bulgaria.
thanks for the help
"Note: For best bass performance, install the W200S into one of the following cabinets:
• A 0.53 cubic foot sealed cabinet (F3 will be 70 Hz with a Qtc of 0.7).
• A 0.71 cubic foot cabinet tuned to 45 Hz with a 2" diameter port that is 5-1/2" long.
• A 1.06 cubic foot cabinet tuned to 39 Hz with a 2" diameter port that is 4-3/8" long.
• A 1.77 cubic foot cabinet tuned to 33 Hz with a 2-1/2" diameter port that is 5-1/8" long."
the 1.06 cubic foot is fine , i saw this 3 way Seas and they look cool probably sound amazing , but the price ...
Also delivery can be pricey ,its a bit hard to find this kind of quality drivers in Bulgaria.
thanks for the help
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