Good day I’m building 3-way system with Radian 950, acoustic elegance td 15m and bms 4540 or radian 465 hf driver Finally i have gotten my radians and i need to find horns for them I’m looking at tractrix 200, jmlc 200t, 270 and jmlc 350 Jmlc 200t are too big for me, but if they are significantly better i will think about them Radian will be crossed with second order at 800hz Which horn will be better in your opinion? Thanks in advance.
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That is measurments with two different drivers.
Here is 200t with the same driver as the tractrix: JMLC-200T - Horns by Auto-Tech
You can compare e.g along the -5 db lines of the two
Jmlc might be more beamy but have a better upper end.
Here is 200t with the same driver as the tractrix: JMLC-200T - Horns by Auto-Tech
You can compare e.g along the -5 db lines of the two
Jmlc might be more beamy but have a better upper end.
I would not use a normal 2»-driver above 7k - this is the area where a 1»-driver excell over an 2».
The shorter the horn, the wider the dispersion. A 2» on a jmlc350 makes a reasonable short horn. I would not fear beaming up to 7k, which is propably the highest you would take it anyway? Have heard the 350 with a Gpa 288, i.e. 1.4»-throat (meaning longer horn). Sounded fantastic. Was crossed to a jmlc 1000 with a Gpa 802(?). I am not sure about the XO but presume somewhere between 3.5k and 8-9K
The shorter the horn, the wider the dispersion. A 2» on a jmlc350 makes a reasonable short horn. I would not fear beaming up to 7k, which is propably the highest you would take it anyway? Have heard the 350 with a Gpa 288, i.e. 1.4»-throat (meaning longer horn). Sounded fantastic. Was crossed to a jmlc 1000 with a Gpa 802(?). I am not sure about the XO but presume somewhere between 3.5k and 8-9K
As you can see if you compare the tractrix-plot with the 200t-plot, jmlc is smoother in the pass area. Whether this is audible, I do not know. Tractrix have a much smaller mouth, which makes intergration with other horns and drivers more easy (c-t-c distance)
My (and many others) choice is jmlc but I also know persons who have tested «everything» and ended with a tractrix in that frequence-area.
My (and many others) choice is jmlc but I also know persons who have tested «everything» and ended with a tractrix in that frequence-area.
I use a tractrix 200 with Radian 850. I would have loved the JMLC 350 but I cross too low for that. JMLC 200 was great but physcially make it impossible with my setup as I also have a 110hz tractrix midbass.
If you are going for second order 800hz, go for the JMLC 350, similar radius at the mouth but about 10cm shallower than tractrix 200 which would be easier to physically integrate as well, it gets less in the way of your upper channels. You do not need a 950 for 800hz, you could have gone for radian 850, I find it to sound better than 950.
Mine cross to JMLC 1400. I have tried Tractrix 1000 and JMLC 1000 too and ended up with 1400.
Unlike audiodidakt, my tests were better with two channels above the tractrix rather than one. For about roughly 4500-10000hz, I have the jmlc 1400 with be 1" cd, and a fostex t500amkII above that. This give a much less beamy, open sound when you adjust their levels as well as time/phase alignment properly. I also use a 30ppi renticulated(i tried few different) foam plug for the 1400hz JMLC which further smooths out the sound without loosing detail (maybe helping homs issue). My xo is passive but adjustable with resistors, so I raise it up 1db to make up for the foam.
If you are going for second order 800hz, go for the JMLC 350, similar radius at the mouth but about 10cm shallower than tractrix 200 which would be easier to physically integrate as well, it gets less in the way of your upper channels. You do not need a 950 for 800hz, you could have gone for radian 850, I find it to sound better than 950.
Mine cross to JMLC 1400. I have tried Tractrix 1000 and JMLC 1000 too and ended up with 1400.
Unlike audiodidakt, my tests were better with two channels above the tractrix rather than one. For about roughly 4500-10000hz, I have the jmlc 1400 with be 1" cd, and a fostex t500amkII above that. This give a much less beamy, open sound when you adjust their levels as well as time/phase alignment properly. I also use a 30ppi renticulated(i tried few different) foam plug for the 1400hz JMLC which further smooths out the sound without loosing detail (maybe helping homs issue). My xo is passive but adjustable with resistors, so I raise it up 1db to make up for the foam.
Do you care about getting the throat angles to match?
A modern driver like yours has a throat entry half-angle of 10.3°, see here:
Radian 950 pb exit angle 10.3° (20.6°)
The perfect jmlc horn would be one that has a throat that matches this angle.
These would not be perfect:
Azurahorn -Le Cleac'h Acoustic Horns - Products
...because these jmlc horns all have a T factor of 0.8 or lower. This means they have a throat entry half-angle of 5 to 6°. This angle is an excellent match for many vintage drivers, but not for yours.
Auto-Tech and other sites don't seem to state the T-factor or throat angles of their devices. Doing a guesstimate based on the length of the JMLC-350, its throat entry half-angle would be about 4°.
For your throat entry half-angle of 10.3°, the ideal throat continuity would be achieved with a jmlc horn having a T factor of about 1.4 - which dictates that it would be a rapidly opening horn, of about 19cm depth.
A modern driver like yours has a throat entry half-angle of 10.3°, see here:
Radian 950 pb exit angle 10.3° (20.6°)
The perfect jmlc horn would be one that has a throat that matches this angle.
These would not be perfect:
Azurahorn -Le Cleac'h Acoustic Horns - Products
...because these jmlc horns all have a T factor of 0.8 or lower. This means they have a throat entry half-angle of 5 to 6°. This angle is an excellent match for many vintage drivers, but not for yours.
Auto-Tech and other sites don't seem to state the T-factor or throat angles of their devices. Doing a guesstimate based on the length of the JMLC-350, its throat entry half-angle would be about 4°.
For your throat entry half-angle of 10.3°, the ideal throat continuity would be achieved with a jmlc horn having a T factor of about 1.4 - which dictates that it would be a rapidly opening horn, of about 19cm depth.
Thanks, that’s something new
But where i can find horn with that type of angle?
Here 6moons industry features: La Grande Castine
They are using simple jmlc horn(i think jmlc 350 as it is 60 cm in diameter) with radian 950
I can’t even find a shop that shows T-factor in their specs of horn
But where i can find horn with that type of angle?
Here 6moons industry features: La Grande Castine
They are using simple jmlc horn(i think jmlc 350 as it is 60 cm in diameter) with radian 950
I can’t even find a shop that shows T-factor in their specs of horn
Many people don't bother, so that's always an option
The Azura horn site is the only one I know of, but almost all of them are the same value (T = 0.8).
You might be able to commission a horn with a larger T factor.
Other options are to modify an existing horn, or build some from scatch. How much shopping around / DIY work you are willing to do? Several ideas:
1) The least effort would probably be to make a custom 2-to-4 inch adapter (with a half-angle that starts at 10.3°) for a horn like this:
SEOS-24 4” - Horns by Auto-Tech
Maybe you could get someone to 3D print adapters for you (or mill them from metal, if you wanted to be fancy).
2) If you were willing to build from scratch, a petal (gramophone style) horn can be made without a full workshop / heaps of tools.
doityourselfaudio: 140Hz Petal Horns
3) A few years ago, I hand made a horn to match some B&C drivers:
small giveaway, Melbourne Australia - hollowboy - High Efficiency Speaker Asylum
I 'mass produced' the parts by making a template and doing multiple copies with a router. It would be an easier & more accurate build if you could get these parts CNC cut (and make more rings + spokes than I did).
NOTE: typo in the link, it should say "Le'Cleach curve tacked onto a conical throat"
4) combine the above: make a petal style horn (like idea 2), but also cut external rings (like idea 3) that you could affix the petals to. The rings would make the horn a little more rigid, and a bit easier to assemble.
Attachments
Many people don't bother, so that's always an option
Thank you, but it seems to difficult for me at this point
what is the price of that horn?
And where it can be bought?
As i understood the best option is to make custom jmlc horn with bigger opening angle I have written to seller and he said that it is possible to make jmlc 350 with 20 degrees opening angle, but it will cost 2000 euros, so for me it is not an option as it goes far out my budget I think the best option would have been if i bought radian 951 and seos 24
He made me these Jmlc 800 horns with throat matching exit on Radian 475. Will look for contact data
En autodidakts jakt pa audioskatten ved enden regnbuen - Side 7
En autodidakts jakt pa audioskatten ved enden regnbuen - Side 7
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