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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Kairos alternatives?
Kairos alternatives?
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Old 28th April 2018, 05:33 PM   #1
paulys55 is offline paulys55  United States
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Default Kairos alternatives?

Looking to do my first speaker build but not ready for the design process so looking for a kit. I really like Jeff Bagby's Kairos and I've looked at other kits but just want to be sure that I haven't missed anything interesting. The Kairos kit is about 6 years old now so I have to imagine there some newer kits out there. Any thoughts or opinions would be appreciated.
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Old 28th April 2018, 08:18 PM   #2
fatmarley is offline fatmarley  England
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Firstly I wouldn't let the age of a design put you off. That would be a big mistake.

I'd be very surprised If Tony Gee Plutone didn't sound better than the Kairos.

Another design to consider Is Paul Carmody Carrera. It uses state of the art drivers and Paul Is a well respected designer.

If you like to listen at lower volumes then the Plutone would be my choice (Not that It won't sound at least as good as the others at high volume).
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Old 28th April 2018, 08:32 PM   #3
Ugg10 is online now Ugg10  United Kingdom
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The Klang and Ton Nada May be worth a look as well.

Klang + Ton NADA 2-Way
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Old 28th April 2018, 09:51 PM   #4
paulys55 is offline paulys55  United States
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I've looked at all those options. The Plutone is sweet but at least twice as expensive as Kairos if not more. Same goes for the Klang. Would like to keep it under $1000 USA. The Carrera is about the same price so if anyone can comment on differences that would be useful. I'm definitely not saying that the Kairos is outdated, just want to see what else is out there.
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Old 28th April 2018, 10:24 PM   #5
andy2 is offline andy2  United States
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On paper, the Carrera uses better woofer and probably better tweeter as well although I cannot comment on the actual sound since personally I have not heard them. At least in theory, the Kairos has a more severe slanted baffle which in my opinion can be difficult to integrate the woofer and tweeter and could be tricky in term of having a listening sweet spot. The Carrera is a more conventional design which has a 2nd order on the woofer and 3rd order on the tweeter. But both are using asymmetric xover design to align the woofer and tweeter phase. In the case of the Kairos, since he does not have any xover published, my guess is it uses first order on the woofer and 2nd order on the tweeter. Asymmetric xover is not ideal but it's compromise.
In my opinion, if you're going to go to the trouble of having slanted baffle, why not adjust so that you can use 2nd order on both woofer and tweeter.
Looking at the freq. response, I think the Carrera probably will have a more warmer sounding vs. the Kairos which is tuned to have a slightly flatter freq. response. I guess it depends on whether one's preference is toward a warm or neutral sound.
Personally, I think the Carrera is a safer design whereas the Kairos is a bit riskier although it may work out for the better. That is the problem with choosing an online design without having listening to them first. With the case of the Kairos, he does not even publish the xover so it's kind of a blind trust.
I would recommend looking at some of Troels designs but just be careful that his designs can sometimes sound a bit overly warm. Most of Troels design uses LR2 xover which is more preferable over asymmetric xover of the Carrera and Kairos. Personally knowing what I know, I would not go with either designs and maybe do a bit more research to find a better alternative.
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Old 28th April 2018, 10:59 PM   #6
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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Anniversario kit — Selah Audio

..and while not a "kit" for a practical US order, the Elsinore can be built based on the info. on the website, only requiring you to order the waveguides from Joe at a very reasonable price:

Elsinore Speakers DIY
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Old 28th April 2018, 11:49 PM   #7
andy2 is offline andy2  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottG View Post
I looked at the published frequency response which I posted below and I think I heard a little bit of ringing in my ears. But joking aside, I can't help but thinking these will be forward with emphasis in sibilance. Maybe they will sound nice on perfect recordings, but on less than perfect recordings I just have a feeling the sound could be fatigue.
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File Type: png freq.png (289.9 KB, 430 views)
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Old 29th April 2018, 01:06 AM   #8
fatmarley is offline fatmarley  England
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Agree.
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Old 29th April 2018, 04:42 AM   #9
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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..it largely depends on the stand and the resulting vertical off-axis AND pressure drop from floor bounce (and where it occurs in freq. as a result).

In otherwords: the stand should be short (vertically) - like less than a foot and a half off the floor (..though relative to listener distance).

It should also be listened to off-axis horizontally (aimed "straight ahead", or alternativly with exagerated "toe-in" - "crossing" before the listener).


..I should also note that the particular ribbon on it is one of the best made regardless of price.


(..between all of the above though, I'd still go with the Elsinor UNLESS I had on or more subwoofers to use with the speakers.. and even then there are substantive reasons to choose the Elsinore.)
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Last edited by ScottG; 29th April 2018 at 04:49 AM.
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Old 29th April 2018, 04:51 AM   #10
andy2 is offline andy2  United States
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I understand what you said. Basically we need to get more bass enforcement or bass gain at the same time reducing the high frequency by listening a bit off axis. But still, the freq. response does favor high frequency especially a around 5khz and above where sibilance is present. Also the 2khz - 3khz seems a bit elevated for my taste.
But I still don't think one should play around with position too much as a way adjust the sound. I think a good pair of speakers shouldn't be too fussy with position.
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