Kairos 3-way cabinet

Hi,

I'm thinking to start first project with Kairos 3 way.

I understand that I can't change the angle on the front TM baffle, am I right?

Any idea for simple cabinet design for this kit?
Classic design would be great, or something more sexy than the original Kairos 3-way design.
I have basic wood & audio skills but I want to learn through this project. I can use wood workshop/CNC if needed for certain parts.

I have 3.5m X 4.5m room, so I think to make the woofer cabinet as small as I can, something like 400mm X 400mm X 400mm, and maybe with small stands - Is it possible? even that I prefer classic design or something more attractive.

I have SVS SB2000
DENON AVR-X24000H - After the speakers build I'll find good amp
Music: Rock, Rap, Jazz, Indie & Blues.
Source: PC (Tidal, Hi-Res, Deezer & Spotify)
90% Music / 10% HT
Soon to buy miniDSPs
Listen alone most of the time and not loud - regular.

Thanks!

Itamar.
 
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I saw this file, very informative. Thanks.

I understand that would prevent the woofer go lower, but I want to make the cabinet on the small side because I have small room and powered sub (SVS SB2000). I really like the combination of 2 powered subs in any type of stereo system (3way, 2way, 2.5way ETC) and I think (and maybe totally wrong) that if the woofer cabinet will be smaller it would help the subs to combine well.
 
Per Madisound:
Sealed cabinet of 0.8 cubic feet (22.6 liters) for a F3 of 48 Hz.
Vented cabinet of 2.0 cubic feet (56.6 liters) with 3" dia. port by 12" long for a F3 of 28 Hz.
Since you have two subs. I would go with the sealed version.
Which a 12" Wide x 12" High x 10" Deep would give you 0.83 cubic feet (internal volume).
 
Thanks for the comment.

In the last post I opened about this topic many forum members advice me to build 3 way with minimum 8" woofer (or similar) to feel the low notes.

Right now I'm using 2-Way bookshelfs + powered sub. The bookshelfs is Elipson Studio Pro with XT25 tweeters and peerless Nomex midrange. It is sounds good and fun, but not like a proper 3 way, not the same image and instruments separation. In the last week I listened again to expensive and well reputed bookshelfs and always found something missing. The less expensive 3-way sounds better.

Got confused again :<
 
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If you want a true 3-way then build it. If you want a 2-way with additional bass capability then build something like the Kairos + woofer OR Kairos + your sub. The optional woofer for the Kairos design is roughly equivalent to a sub (one has to argue of what a sub really is).
The 10" is fully capable of playing the low notes, no need to add an additional sub. What is good with the woofer option for the Kairos is that it provides a correct integration in both SPL and phase, something you need to find by yourself if you opt for the sub instead.

Right now I'm using 2-Way bookshelfs + powered sub. The bookshelfs is Elipson Studio Pro with XT25 tweeters and peerless Nomex midrange. It is sounds good and fun, but not like a proper 3 way, not the same image and instruments separation.
Maybe you have integration problems, maybe your speakers don't have a proper BSC applied. But if you feel that a 3 way is superior to a 2-way + sub, then don't build the Kairos, and search instead a plan for a real 3-way. Just a note thou: have you ever listened to a 3-way in your room?

Ralf
 
I want a true 3-way. I think the kairos isn't for me.

I'm pretty sure I have integration promblems.
I heard 2-way + 2 subs and it sounds good but not like a 3-way. Will minidsp make it sounds like 3-way?

Maybe 2-way monitor + subs + 2 minidsp is what I need?

I guess I didn't hear yet perfect balanced system with 2 subs.

10 years ago I had 3-way Sanyo vintage speaker in this room, I can't really remember how it played since it was my first speaker. In the last years I didn't hear any 3-way I like in this room...
 
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Well, the Kairos with the additional woofer as designed by Jeff Bagby IS a 3-way system. It has a crossover between woofer and mid designed to give flat FR and good phase integration.

You can achieve the same result with the Kairos and a different woofer or a sub, with minidsp AND measurement capabilities. A minidsp is only useful if you know what you need to achieve.

Ralf
 
DEBATE POINT: Spend your limited floor space and money on an exceptional stereo pair of front 3-way FULL RANGE speakers.
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PORTS SUCK! they also blow...whistle...huff and puff....leak midrange harmonics

A 12" woofer like the SB34NRX75-6 designed for excellent transients in a sealed box volume can produce better sound quality than a ported alignment, but requires a larger volume box than a ported alignment for the same -F3. For the best stereo soundstage, spend your floor space and money on a stereo pair of tall front 3-way FULL RANGE speakers. Use the equalizer capability in your Denon or PC to help smooth low frequency bass.

Simplify the conversion to DSP. One of the big sonic benefits from DSP is the ease of getting very high quality bass from putting a "larger than normal" woofer in a modest volume sealed box and using a Linkwitz Transform function to get deep bass with a high power amplifier. Geddes: “The mains should be designed for the best possible direct field with as flat a power response as possible. Room equalization of the mains could only make them worse.” Initially put your single subwoofer along the rear wall(corner) to help equalize room bass modes at the listener.

You can get help to add the 12" sealed SB34NRX75-6 to the Jeff Bagby Adelphos pre-built crossover instead of the ported 10" SB29NRX75-6. You can get help on new crossover designs, if you can get local construction help.
 

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SUPPLEMENT:
Jeff Bagby favors a LR2 woofer crossover at 200Hz to the Kairos to help cover flexible baffle step compensation demands. Jeff selected "musical" woofers with significant frequency extension beyond 200Hz.

"I call this a 'universal crossover' because the low pass section works well with a lot of different woofers since most of them break-up or roll-off well beyond the crossover point. And the high pass section does equally well for a large number of monitor speakers if they are sealed and have a nominal impedance of 8 ohms. The crossover point is at approximately 200 Hz, which provides a nice transition between the bass and the vocal range. The acoustic slopes are approximately 2nd order Linkwitz – Riley slopes, which is the reason most of the set-ups will require a reverse polarity connection between the woofer module and the monitor. "
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The SVS SB-2000 Subwoofer SPL measurements show -3db at 220Hz, which is at the limit of ideal Kairos integration. You will want to listen to 200Hz music on your SB-2000 before commiting to a marriage with Kairos / Adelphos.
 

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Thanks for comment, here and in the other post (don't want to bump it).

Seems awesome and it looks like I could handle the building process of the 2nd option with woofer in front.

BUT,
I like to play the SB2000 at 120 Hz / 100 Hz on crossover, it sounds better to me, I did a check with few songs I know well and turned the mains off sometimes to get bass only perspective.

That means that 3-way based on Adelphos + 12" sealed won't be ideal for me?
I can't understand how its affects me :eek:

I'm still considering the Ekta MK II, maybe its the way to go
 
Don't forget that Kairos has 6dB baffle step compensation. It would be nice to remove most of that to gain back that lost sensitivity when active woofer relieves the low frequency burden from the midwoofer. The low sensitivity of Kairos is one of the few negatives.

If you haven't built your Kairos yet, you could use the new Satori midrange drivers instead of the Kairos midwoofer.

A pair of Satori 9" per side will match the sensitivity of the new mid and the old ferrite Satori tweeter to make about 90dB sensitivity speaker. One of my future dream projects. :D
 
That means that 3-way based on Adelphos + 12" sealed won't be ideal for me?
1) Now you know that putting the Kairos / Aldephos using their recommended 200Hz crossover on top of stereo SB2000 subwoofers will not produce good sound.

2) Using stereo SB2000 subwoofers requires main front stereo speakers with -F3 below ~80Hz to meet the quarter wavelength C-to-C goal, and ideally -F3 below ~60Hz.

3) A sealed 12" SB34NRX75-6 woofer generates -F3 below 37Hz with excellent Qtc=0.7 transients before room gain effects. Adding equalization/DSP to a sealed SB34NRX75-6 with Fs=18Hz can generate -F3 ~20Hz deep bass. .... front stereo bass. SB2000 subwoofers along the rear wall or side walls can be used to smooth room bass modes at the listener.

4) The ported EKTA mk2 with -F3 = 37 Hz will also blend well with SB2000 subwoofers.
 

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LineSource - Thanks for the explanation!

The 1"+7"+12" kit looks like to suit my needs. with 2x9" Satori woofers it sounds even more interesting but double the price for woofers.

If I want to build one of these -
Is there a cabinet's build plan?
What about cross over parts + scheme? (Is the scheme you posted is all what I need?)

Since it is my very first DIY speaker project I kinda must work by plans and schemes.

Richidoo - the 9" woofer seems to be good idea, Thanks.

But, if I choose use double woofers - why not using 2x8" Satori? I have small room, they cheaper in 20% from 9.5" and they are in white Egyptian papyrus :O - Could it work with Satori T+M?

Thanks again guys!!