I have Faital HF146 drivers on 18s XT1464 horns. This combination can be used 500Hz-ish but I would recommend to cross higher due to the much easier implementation of crossover target slopes. A current Setup has a crossover frequency of 650 Hz.
They go up quite nicely but I think also my age helps a lot in not missing upper Extension
Regards
Charles
They go up quite nicely but I think also my age helps a lot in not missing upper Extension
Regards
Charles
The HF146 is a very nice driver. Is this on top of a 12" or 15"?
If I had to buy new drivers for a smaller cabinet, I'd probably opt for the 15PR400 with HF146 or HF204.
It's not that easy to find 15's with "oldskool specs" these days.
Beyma is one of the non-esoteric brands that still offers a few. Their Alu dome 755 comp. driver (CP-755Nd/AL) is magnificent as well.
Does anybody have experience with an Aluminium diaphragm in TAD 4001?
If I had to buy new drivers for a smaller cabinet, I'd probably opt for the 15PR400 with HF146 or HF204.
It's not that easy to find 15's with "oldskool specs" these days.
Beyma is one of the non-esoteric brands that still offers a few. Their Alu dome 755 comp. driver (CP-755Nd/AL) is magnificent as well.
Does anybody have experience with an Aluminium diaphragm in TAD 4001?
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Hello all,
Interesting thread.
I would like to ask opinions and advices here. I am building a home system with 15” JBL woofer for midbass which I plan to cross to horn compression driver at around 800-1000 hz. For compression driver I have already Renkus-Heinz SSD3301, which is vintage 2” throat driver with aluminum diaphragm and seems to have a good reputation as a driver for home audio. I have also a pair of Renkus-Heinz CBH820 horns which came with drivers. They do have a slot near the throat entrance. I have done some prototyping and listening with active crossover. I like the sound of the drivers when played from 1 to 4-5 khz and then crossed to a tweeter. However, there is still some honkyness coming from the horn audible when listening to more complex musical styles.
ftp://ftp.renkus-heinz.com/Legacy_Products/Datasheets_and_Drawings/Aluminum_Horns/CBH820_data.pdf
I would like to ask if the CBH820 horn is a good option for home audio or should I look for something else? In Europe there are not so many options when it comes to 2” horns: Eminence H2EA, 18 Sound XR2064 and a few options from P.Audio like 2380.
As I mentioned, I liked the sound with a tweeter on the top covering from 5k and above. When running active I liked the sound with Illuminator silk dome tweeter, but it is certainly not an option for passive crossover due to sensitivity. So I am looking for a good solution for a super tweeter or a small horn with CD which sounds somewhat similar to dome tweeter but preferably more dynamic and with higher sensitivity.
I like the sound of vintage JBL studio monitors. There, 1 or 2 inch compression drivers were used with narrow exponential tube horns, like JBL h93 with acoustic lens on top. Some people dismount the lens and like the sound more. My question is, what are the pros and cons of such exponential tube horns for home use comparing to constant directivity “wide” horns?
I have some experience building speakers and amplifiers but horns is a new thing for me. Any advice would be much appreciated.
Interesting thread.
I would like to ask opinions and advices here. I am building a home system with 15” JBL woofer for midbass which I plan to cross to horn compression driver at around 800-1000 hz. For compression driver I have already Renkus-Heinz SSD3301, which is vintage 2” throat driver with aluminum diaphragm and seems to have a good reputation as a driver for home audio. I have also a pair of Renkus-Heinz CBH820 horns which came with drivers. They do have a slot near the throat entrance. I have done some prototyping and listening with active crossover. I like the sound of the drivers when played from 1 to 4-5 khz and then crossed to a tweeter. However, there is still some honkyness coming from the horn audible when listening to more complex musical styles.
ftp://ftp.renkus-heinz.com/Legacy_Products/Datasheets_and_Drawings/Aluminum_Horns/CBH820_data.pdf
I would like to ask if the CBH820 horn is a good option for home audio or should I look for something else? In Europe there are not so many options when it comes to 2” horns: Eminence H2EA, 18 Sound XR2064 and a few options from P.Audio like 2380.
As I mentioned, I liked the sound with a tweeter on the top covering from 5k and above. When running active I liked the sound with Illuminator silk dome tweeter, but it is certainly not an option for passive crossover due to sensitivity. So I am looking for a good solution for a super tweeter or a small horn with CD which sounds somewhat similar to dome tweeter but preferably more dynamic and with higher sensitivity.
I like the sound of vintage JBL studio monitors. There, 1 or 2 inch compression drivers were used with narrow exponential tube horns, like JBL h93 with acoustic lens on top. Some people dismount the lens and like the sound more. My question is, what are the pros and cons of such exponential tube horns for home use comparing to constant directivity “wide” horns?
I have some experience building speakers and amplifiers but horns is a new thing for me. Any advice would be much appreciated.
The RH SSD 18.. and 33.. series are Renkus-Heinz take on pancake drivers.
Personally I haven't use any of these, but according to others the SSD's are indeed nice drivers.
Be careful with the diaphragms, because replacements are very hard to find and NLA.
First some data:
Personally I haven't use any of these, but according to others the SSD's are indeed nice drivers.
Be careful with the diaphragms, because replacements are very hard to find and NLA.
First some data:
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Renkus-Heinz used the 3301 in several 2-way loudspeakers, despite the rather steep drop above 12kHz.
With some (excessive) EQ you might boost the 12-16 kHz range, but you won't get to 20kHz. I would probably settle for that.
But if you prefer a (super)tweeter I'd look at Beyma CP21, CP21F, CP22, CP25 for synergy between diaphragm materials.
With some (excessive) EQ you might boost the 12-16 kHz range, but you won't get to 20kHz. I would probably settle for that.
But if you prefer a (super)tweeter I'd look at Beyma CP21, CP21F, CP22, CP25 for synergy between diaphragm materials.
The CBH 820 is a "Constant-Beamwidth" horn as opposed to Renkus SSH range, which are exponential (and presumably better suited for hi-fi).
The CBH 820 was available in 2 versions:
1. CBH 820: 90°H X 40°V
2. CBH 820-6: 60°H X 40°V.
Despite the description 'Waveguide' in the literature, these aren't waveguides in the Geddes' sense of the word, apart from being short.
Due to the diffraction slot and many sharp edges these are literally HOM generators. The honky character you refer to is not surprising.
I am afraid these horns are rather useless for hi-fi at home.
An exponential round horn could work with the 3301s, but I wouldn't use it because of the very narrow beam > it'll probably shave your eyebrows.
The CBH 820 was available in 2 versions:
1. CBH 820: 90°H X 40°V
2. CBH 820-6: 60°H X 40°V.
Despite the description 'Waveguide' in the literature, these aren't waveguides in the Geddes' sense of the word, apart from being short.
Due to the diffraction slot and many sharp edges these are literally HOM generators. The honky character you refer to is not surprising.
I am afraid these horns are rather useless for hi-fi at home.
An exponential round horn could work with the 3301s, but I wouldn't use it because of the very narrow beam > it'll probably shave your eyebrows.
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On closer inspection, the throat area of the CBH 820 doesn't look all that bad. The transition from throat to mouth is similar to my B&C horns. However, the sharp edges between the segments remain a source of reflections/scattering.
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Ro808, thank you for such extended replies!
Pretty much everything you mentioned about the 3301 and the 820 was confirmed by my experiments. The driver does sound nice to me, particularly within the range of 1k to 4-5k. The horn does sound honky. I already tried it with foam and it helped to some extend.
At the latest point of my experiments I decided to avoid using 2" driver and try a 1" Faital HF108R on a QSC waveguide clone with 15" JBL woofers. The result was generally good; very smooth and detailed. However, I was lacking dynamics and more realistic sound in the mid range that the 3301 could provide. Some more auditions to be performed next week, but it might be that 2" horn is unavoidable in the current system I am building.
I am thinking now about placing an order on these horns to use with the 3301 and try to combine with HF108 in a small horn:
2" Throat Horn Bolt-On 18"x10"For Assorted Bolt On 2"Exit Drivers 90degx 40deg(398) | eBay
Pretty much everything you mentioned about the 3301 and the 820 was confirmed by my experiments. The driver does sound nice to me, particularly within the range of 1k to 4-5k. The horn does sound honky. I already tried it with foam and it helped to some extend.
At the latest point of my experiments I decided to avoid using 2" driver and try a 1" Faital HF108R on a QSC waveguide clone with 15" JBL woofers. The result was generally good; very smooth and detailed. However, I was lacking dynamics and more realistic sound in the mid range that the 3301 could provide. Some more auditions to be performed next week, but it might be that 2" horn is unavoidable in the current system I am building.
I am thinking now about placing an order on these horns to use with the 3301 and try to combine with HF108 in a small horn:
2" Throat Horn Bolt-On 18"x10"For Assorted Bolt On 2"Exit Drivers 90degx 40deg(398) | eBay
Which waveguide [WG]?
FWIW, here's how I resolved this dilemma way back when I wanted to keep the robust mids of a Lansing/Altec 1.4" throat 805 multicell Vs the superior upper mids - HF of the 1" throat 511B sectoral horn by the simple expedient of stacking two 511/1" drivers and doing a 1.5 XO with CD horn EQ, which gained me a bit more mouth area, vertical pattern control and power handling than the 805 for the mids, yet retained the then superior HF these 1" drivers were well known for.
So, maybe switch WGs if need be to best implement this?
GM
FWIW, here's how I resolved this dilemma way back when I wanted to keep the robust mids of a Lansing/Altec 1.4" throat 805 multicell Vs the superior upper mids - HF of the 1" throat 511B sectoral horn by the simple expedient of stacking two 511/1" drivers and doing a 1.5 XO with CD horn EQ, which gained me a bit more mouth area, vertical pattern control and power handling than the 805 for the mids, yet retained the then superior HF these 1" drivers were well known for.
So, maybe switch WGs if need be to best implement this?
GM
Hi Anton,
That horn should go nicely with the 3301s. I am confident it will beat the 820's in nearly every respect, most importantly (I presume) regarding sound quality.
Violin player, vintage audio freak and tube amplifier builder Joseph Esmilla bolted the 3301 to an Emilar EH500 horn and liked it a lot (Scroll downwards).
Although the Emilar isn't the same as the ZXPC, they share some features and are more comparable with each other than with the 820.
Don't forget to post you results.
It would be interesting to learn about - both objective and subjective - differences between the ZXPC+3301 in a 2-way versus a 3-way setup.
That horn should go nicely with the 3301s. I am confident it will beat the 820's in nearly every respect, most importantly (I presume) regarding sound quality.
Violin player, vintage audio freak and tube amplifier builder Joseph Esmilla bolted the 3301 to an Emilar EH500 horn and liked it a lot (Scroll downwards).
Although the Emilar isn't the same as the ZXPC, they share some features and are more comparable with each other than with the 820.
Don't forget to post you results.
It would be interesting to learn about - both objective and subjective - differences between the ZXPC+3301 in a 2-way versus a 3-way setup.
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1" drivers in a big 2-way (15" woofer) got populair because of Earl Geddes, the Econowave movement, Wayne Parham (Pi Speakers) etc.
As Anton may have noticed, the midrange - where most of the music is - often leaves much to be desired in such a configuration.
Simply put, most contemporary 15" woofers don't play well past 500Hz, let alone towards, or even past 1000Hz.
On top of that: every 1" compression driver is pushed out of its comfortzone towards and definitely below 1000Hz.
Even if measurements suggest otherwise, your (un)trained ears will decide whether this compromise sounds acceptable.
Or just stick with the measurements
As Anton may have noticed, the midrange - where most of the music is - often leaves much to be desired in such a configuration.
Simply put, most contemporary 15" woofers don't play well past 500Hz, let alone towards, or even past 1000Hz.
On top of that: every 1" compression driver is pushed out of its comfortzone towards and definitely below 1000Hz.
Even if measurements suggest otherwise, your (un)trained ears will decide whether this compromise sounds acceptable.
Or just stick with the measurements
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Hi Guys! OP Here. WOW. This thread blew up!
Thanks for all the additional information guys specially to @Cask05 .
Anyway, just an update, saved up enough again (after that unfortunate scam I got involved with for the Klipsch k510) and after 2 years from starting this thread I've finally come up with the components for the build.
1. Horn: Had a local carpenter build me a BiRadial Horn a la Yuichi(ish) [16.5" x 8"].
- revised my "must be smaller or = Klipsch Heresy size" limitation and this build may be around 17.5" to 18" in width but still want as compact a box in terms of size and depth.
2. Compression Driver:
- Lucked out on a P.Audio PA DE99/D99 with a 4" Voice Coil (Man this thing is huge). Allegedly a copy of the famed JBL 2445 Comp Driver (doubt it though).
3.) Woofer:
-Lucked out again on a deal with a JBL 2226 15" Woofer.
Glueing in the 2 halves of the horn and currently designing a box with my Dad. Any suggestions for a compact box build would be most welcome.
Leaning towards a smallish clone of the TAD2402 dimensions but nothing is set in stone yet as we can try out a couple of spare boxes at my Dad's home with the horn placed on top.
Again, Thank you so much for posting guys I learned a lot about horns in this thread.
Wish me luck. Any tips and info are most welcome. Any cheap power amp suggestions for the low end?
Thanks for all the additional information guys specially to @Cask05 .
Anyway, just an update, saved up enough again (after that unfortunate scam I got involved with for the Klipsch k510) and after 2 years from starting this thread I've finally come up with the components for the build.
1. Horn: Had a local carpenter build me a BiRadial Horn a la Yuichi(ish) [16.5" x 8"].
- revised my "must be smaller or = Klipsch Heresy size" limitation and this build may be around 17.5" to 18" in width but still want as compact a box in terms of size and depth.
2. Compression Driver:
- Lucked out on a P.Audio PA DE99/D99 with a 4" Voice Coil (Man this thing is huge). Allegedly a copy of the famed JBL 2445 Comp Driver (doubt it though).
3.) Woofer:
-Lucked out again on a deal with a JBL 2226 15" Woofer.
Glueing in the 2 halves of the horn and currently designing a box with my Dad. Any suggestions for a compact box build would be most welcome.
Leaning towards a smallish clone of the TAD2402 dimensions but nothing is set in stone yet as we can try out a couple of spare boxes at my Dad's home with the horn placed on top.
Again, Thank you so much for posting guys I learned a lot about horns in this thread.
Wish me luck. Any tips and info are most welcome. Any cheap power amp suggestions for the low end?
