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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Miller & Kreisel S-1B satellite crossover update
Miller & Kreisel S-1B satellite crossover update
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Old 13th April 2018, 05:44 PM   #11
kenwood61 is offline kenwood61  United States
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Good man. I use Mills on the large resistors in my BA-3000, so looks like we're on the same path. To be honest, I have never mapped out a crossover, so this should be fun.
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Old 13th April 2018, 05:58 PM   #12
system7 is online now system7  United Kingdom
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That's an interesting speaker, my friend. Sort of PA-type thing I like:

Quote:
Tweeters: Two 1" soft-dome
Mid-woofers: Two 5" polyproylene cones
Power: 7 1/2 watts min., 400 watts max.
Frequency Response: 75 - 22 KHz +/- 3db
Impedance: 4 ohms
Two SEAS 5" polycones, two Vifa tweeters. Maybe soft dome, maybe mylar/plastic.

Wired in parallel, you'd guess from the 4 ohm impedance.

You don't usually have to work too hard to get 5" polycone plus tweeter working well. Second order LR2 or even third order BW3 3.5kHz filters usually do it, especially since time-aligned. Doubling drivers usually gets people moaning about combing effects, but I don't mind that.

Doubling drivers TTMM is an interesting piece of physics. You get the same sound level for half the room power on axis. Thing is they radiate less above and below axis, so sound quieter, especially to the neighbours. It's the projecting PA sound. Loudness falls off less with distance. MTTM is another valid layout.
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File Type: jpg Miller and Kreisel S1B.JPG (33.8 KB, 128 views)
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Old 13th April 2018, 06:17 PM   #13
kenwood61 is offline kenwood61  United States
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Thanks Steve. I do like them, and they give me an option in my living space that I like. I'm dealing with acoustics in a new house, and my room has a vaulted 11' ceiling, so the big speakers are tricky. These sound good just about anywhere I put them ... so worth doing the crossovers to make sure I'm getting the most out of the original design.
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Old 13th April 2018, 06:24 PM   #14
kenwood61 is offline kenwood61  United States
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Pulled crossovers and found that one cap is a different brand on one, same value, but probably ran out of the KSC used on all other NP caps. I'll post pics today. Camera battery is charging .... a few notes.

Cement resistors on the character adjust circuits are stacked and each side is glued. Not sure if that is necessary, but the values are:

10W on the midrange side
2/3/6/15 ohm

5w on the treble side:
2/4/7.5/15 ohm

The remaining cement resistors are:
6 ohm, 5W
7.5 ohm, 5W
2.5 ohm, 10W

The rest of the (radial) electrolytic caps are all 50 VDC:

4 uF (axial)
8 MFD
16 MFD
18 MFD
32 MFD

Have to get back to work. I'll pull PCB later to map circuit, unless Ken has a copy he'll share.
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Old 13th April 2018, 07:48 PM   #15
kenwood61 is offline kenwood61  United States
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Well, I can't figure out how to pull the pcb off down by the speaker terminals. They appear to snap in place, but I have now broken a small piece of one, and see that the same place on the other crossover has the same broken piece. I may want to source someone's clean terminals since I'm guessing there is not room to put modern posts. I have a set, but they are too big.

Here's three pics. The third shows solder points that I am guessing need to be desoldered to pull apart?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg broken-spkr-term.jpg (569.2 KB, 95 views)
File Type: jpg broken-spkr-term-2.jpg (563.6 KB, 91 views)
File Type: jpg terminal-removal-desolder.jpg (573.7 KB, 77 views)
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Old 13th April 2018, 07:50 PM   #16
kenwood61 is offline kenwood61  United States
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Default Photos

Here are photos of the crossover.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg crossover-pulled.jpg (565.7 KB, 74 views)
File Type: jpg crossover-1.jpg (596.7 KB, 22 views)
File Type: jpg crossovers.jpg (888.7 KB, 22 views)
File Type: jpg crossover-2.jpg (528.3 KB, 21 views)
File Type: jpg crossover-3.jpg (572.6 KB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg crossover-4.jpg (611.7 KB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg side-view.jpg (689.2 KB, 19 views)
File Type: jpg crossover-883.jpg (758.1 KB, 25 views)
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Old 13th April 2018, 09:25 PM   #17
system7 is online now system7  United Kingdom
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An honest person, confronted by one of the many interpretations of a goodish loudspeaker might concede that some ideas are better than others.

IMO, every loudspeaker makes some concessions to the room. Your Room is the Monster... It's easy enough to design a great loudspeaker. But put it in a small room, and it all goes wrong...

Here's Troels Gravesen's small MT speaker: Peerless HDS PPB 830860

I really don't find anything Mathematically difficult about converting that to an MTTM or TTMM design.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Peerless 5inch PPB plus tweeter.JPG (32.3 KB, 36 views)
File Type: jpg Peerless Speaker.JPG (41.6 KB, 34 views)
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Old 13th April 2018, 09:28 PM   #18
kenwood61 is offline kenwood61  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by system7 View Post
An honest person, confronted by one of the many interpretations of a goodish loudspeaker might concede that some ideas are better than others.

IMO, every loudspeaker makes some concessions to the room. Your Room is the Monster... It's easy enough to design a great loudspeaker. But put it in a small room, and it all goes wrong...

Here's Troels Gravesen's small MT speaker: Peerless HDS PPB 830860

I really don't find anything Mathematically difficult about converting that to an MTTM or TTMM design.
The room IS the monster ... but I like having a little more space than the last place.

It is possible that a DIY monitor project would be in my future, but probably not for another year. I have too many projects to catch up on.
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Old 13th April 2018, 09:52 PM   #19
system7 is online now system7  United Kingdom
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There are various approaches to a nebulous concept known as "Bafflestep". This is something about bass reproduction.

IMO, you just concentrate on voices and midrange.

Click the image to open in full size.

IMO, you are ahead of the field in concentrating on voices. I could quote various areas of Quantum Theory about this. But, for sure, it's all about information. And the PA theory is right.
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Old 13th April 2018, 10:52 PM   #20
kenwood61 is offline kenwood61  United States
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Thanks Steve.

---

Here is the schematic for the S-1B. The only difference I see on the crossover is R9. My crossover has 6 ohm, and the schematic shows 7.5 ohm.
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File Type: png S-1B schematic.png (181.0 KB, 94 views)
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