Hi!
So, im carpenter and have studied electronics for three years. Im quite confident that I can build quite challenging project, but money is of the issue. All cheap designs are only simpple boxes, and thats not what im looking.
Im thinking 500€ for the drivers. Wood and crossover components I can buy as needed so not really need to consider those. I hope I have speakers ready in a year, so not in a hurry.
-I want stereo speakers that will go low and wont need subwoofer
-Should be large.
-I have inter-m QD-4240 amplifier
Inter-M Product - Low Impedance Amplifiers: QD-4240/QD-4480/QD-4960 4 Channel Low Impedance Amplifiers
-I listen to electronic music mostly
-Im looking ready and tested project
-Im no audiophile
-speakers are allowed, but room modifications are mostly not (wife), so should be easy to place(no open baffle?).
Main idea is that I like building stuff and I want speakers that are nice. I dont have lots of money, but I have skills that suite quite well for speaker building. So complex project with cheapish parts.
I have been reading DIY Loudspeaker Projects Troels Gravesen , but all of those are quite expensive.
Thanking in advance, Lassi Heikkilä.
So, im carpenter and have studied electronics for three years. Im quite confident that I can build quite challenging project, but money is of the issue. All cheap designs are only simpple boxes, and thats not what im looking.
Im thinking 500€ for the drivers. Wood and crossover components I can buy as needed so not really need to consider those. I hope I have speakers ready in a year, so not in a hurry.
-I want stereo speakers that will go low and wont need subwoofer
-Should be large.
-I have inter-m QD-4240 amplifier
Inter-M Product - Low Impedance Amplifiers: QD-4240/QD-4480/QD-4960 4 Channel Low Impedance Amplifiers
-I listen to electronic music mostly
-Im looking ready and tested project
-Im no audiophile
-speakers are allowed, but room modifications are mostly not (wife), so should be easy to place(no open baffle?).
Main idea is that I like building stuff and I want speakers that are nice. I dont have lots of money, but I have skills that suite quite well for speaker building. So complex project with cheapish parts.
I have been reading DIY Loudspeaker Projects Troels Gravesen , but all of those are quite expensive.
Thanking in advance, Lassi Heikkilä.
How about these?
John Krutke's two larger projects
Zaph|Audio - SB12.3 3-Way Tower
Zaph|Audio - ZDT3.5
These might be a touch over budget depending on how easily you can get the drivers. Excellent value though.
And by Paul Carmody
Tarkus - undefinition
Which I think you can probably achieve on-budget.
All are very good / solid designs & well-liked. Whether you can get away without a sub depends on your expectations. If you want flat to < 20Hz, no. But if they're a little more modest, then they should be on the 'possibles' list.
John Krutke's two larger projects
Zaph|Audio - SB12.3 3-Way Tower
Zaph|Audio - ZDT3.5
These might be a touch over budget depending on how easily you can get the drivers. Excellent value though.
And by Paul Carmody
Tarkus - undefinition
Which I think you can probably achieve on-budget.
All are very good / solid designs & well-liked. Whether you can get away without a sub depends on your expectations. If you want flat to < 20Hz, no. But if they're a little more modest, then they should be on the 'possibles' list.
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Curveball: the new Fane 15" full-range unit in a big ML-TL.
A very quick run through Hornresp suggests 20Hz extension is possible with a shelved-down response in the bottom end, which will probably match room gain quite nicely.
Cabinet's not small, though, at 362L internal. You're looking at something of the order of 180cm tall, 50cm wide and 40cm deep.
Doesn't need much power, either.
Chris
A very quick run through Hornresp suggests 20Hz extension is possible with a shelved-down response in the bottom end, which will probably match room gain quite nicely.
Cabinet's not small, though, at 362L internal. You're looking at something of the order of 180cm tall, 50cm wide and 40cm deep.
Doesn't need much power, either.
Chris
I think the above suggested Tarkus and Fane 15" could be fun, very different approaches though.
Have you read a bit about constant-directivity speakers? I like those quite a bit. The smaller one I've built is based on a Peerless 830869 8" in an MLTL of ~50 liters. If you don't mind a fairly large enclosure, you could make a 2.5 way with two Peerless in something between 70L-100L. That could go fairly low and loud, based on my experience with only one per side. I like this woofer a lot, it has an extended response with no nasty artifacts and plays well off-axis too, with generous excursion and good sound subjectively. It's well-built, looks good (IMO) and is rather inexpensive.
For the tweeter, I use the JBL 6"x6" PT waveguide and a BMS 4540ND, but perhaps the SEOS 10 could be good too, depending on what you can get easily. There are lots of inexpensive compression drivers that could be used and keep you under budget. The only thing is that you'd have to work out your own crossover in this case. OTOH, there are lots of CD-speaker designs out there already worked out, but most use pro mid-bass that might not go as deep as you want.
Have you read a bit about constant-directivity speakers? I like those quite a bit. The smaller one I've built is based on a Peerless 830869 8" in an MLTL of ~50 liters. If you don't mind a fairly large enclosure, you could make a 2.5 way with two Peerless in something between 70L-100L. That could go fairly low and loud, based on my experience with only one per side. I like this woofer a lot, it has an extended response with no nasty artifacts and plays well off-axis too, with generous excursion and good sound subjectively. It's well-built, looks good (IMO) and is rather inexpensive.
For the tweeter, I use the JBL 6"x6" PT waveguide and a BMS 4540ND, but perhaps the SEOS 10 could be good too, depending on what you can get easily. There are lots of inexpensive compression drivers that could be used and keep you under budget. The only thing is that you'd have to work out your own crossover in this case. OTOH, there are lots of CD-speaker designs out there already worked out, but most use pro mid-bass that might not go as deep as you want.
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cheap tapped pipe subwoofer(s) with ~10ft path and two University Classic 3-way horn speakers - they fit the "large"
part - sorry about them not going "low" by themselves
http://www.geocities.ws/loudspeakerguru/CorrectedUniversityClassic.gif
doityourselfaudio: University Classic
this tapped pipe used a 1260W cheap Infinity car woofer 0 there should be an equivalent driver
part - sorry about them not going "low" by themselves
http://www.geocities.ws/loudspeakerguru/CorrectedUniversityClassic.gif
doityourselfaudio: University Classic
this tapped pipe used a 1260W cheap Infinity car woofer 0 there should be an equivalent driver
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Ok.
Good thinking material.
From those designs I had been looking at Zaph|Audio, and now with further study that SB12.3 3-way tower sounds interesting and fits my criteria quite well. With a quick search I can get those drivers with 600€ mailed to me.
Full-range units are probably not my thing.
I just started to read about that university classic horn loaded, and thats interesting, but large footprint, have to study more.
Good thinking material.
From those designs I had been looking at Zaph|Audio, and now with further study that SB12.3 3-way tower sounds interesting and fits my criteria quite well. With a quick search I can get those drivers with 600€ mailed to me.
Full-range units are probably not my thing.
I just started to read about that university classic horn loaded, and thats interesting, but large footprint, have to study more.
You might be surprised by the Fane 15". Haven't tried them myself, but online reports are good. 20Hz upwards (in-room) from a single driver would be a lot of fun, IMO, if you're willing to live with the box size.
Much cheaper than the multi-ways, too.
It's not something I'd discount out-of-hand, that's all.
Chris
If your wife is like mine, then speakers that have to sit several feet out from the wall in the shared room are off the menu -- and that actually eliminates a large proportion of DIY designs you'll see. Check any design's description to make sure it will work right when placed where you have to place it. You're right that dipoles are out, as well as omnidirectionals. Waveguides might work if not too deep, but that will also depend on the bass portion design.
regarding a Kliipsch Jubilee clone, I assume the K31(E?) woofer specs are as in this link (?) - its moving mass and reference efficiency place it between midbass and subwoofer - that low fs might be hard to find. My Klipschorn K33 woofers have fs near 40Hz yet system resonance is also near 40Hz.
K31 and the Jubilee - Technical/Modifications - The Klipsch Audio Community
http://assets.klipsch.com/product-specsheets/KPT-JUBILEE535-B-Data-Sheet-v05.pdf
klipsch jubilee plan - Google Search
the 12" driver needs good xmax (like K33 in the Klipschorn) as mentioned in one Klipsch forum thread to get the "grunt"
The University Classic horn should sound clean provided good midhorn and tweeter if not extended on the bottom. It could be stood vertical to cut width to 30". If not bi-amping, a midhorn and mid driver solution would take some thought. Offhand, if Altec 511 horns can be found cheap, those make decent midhorns with typical phenolic diaphragm drivers. The crossover can be as simple as a Klipsch Type A with a 2.5mH inductor, cap for midrange and cap for tweeter. Klipsch used an autoformer for attenuation purposes, so as attenuation increases, so does reflected impedance and the capacitor value, smaller.
I like Karlson enclosures a lot (a K12 does not go below 70 but has more "grab"than my Klipschorn) and often prefer them over things like La Scala/FH1 W-bins - very articulate on electronic and acoustic music - but like a lot of midbass horn, the original 15" Karlson box is about F6-F10 @50Hz outdoors.
is there a US source for the Fane 15" twin cone? I have one of the 12" and it was a lot of fun - highs somewhat "papery" but lively from the double-whizzer cone. A big open baffle system might be pretty good with electronic music.
here's a 1 watt 1 pi prediction for the University Classic with stock back chamber size (80 liter), loaded with a JBL M151
bass guitar speaker
K31 and the Jubilee - Technical/Modifications - The Klipsch Audio Community
http://assets.klipsch.com/product-specsheets/KPT-JUBILEE535-B-Data-Sheet-v05.pdf
klipsch jubilee plan - Google Search
the 12" driver needs good xmax (like K33 in the Klipschorn) as mentioned in one Klipsch forum thread to get the "grunt"
The University Classic horn should sound clean provided good midhorn and tweeter if not extended on the bottom. It could be stood vertical to cut width to 30". If not bi-amping, a midhorn and mid driver solution would take some thought. Offhand, if Altec 511 horns can be found cheap, those make decent midhorns with typical phenolic diaphragm drivers. The crossover can be as simple as a Klipsch Type A with a 2.5mH inductor, cap for midrange and cap for tweeter. Klipsch used an autoformer for attenuation purposes, so as attenuation increases, so does reflected impedance and the capacitor value, smaller.
I like Karlson enclosures a lot (a K12 does not go below 70 but has more "grab"than my Klipschorn) and often prefer them over things like La Scala/FH1 W-bins - very articulate on electronic and acoustic music - but like a lot of midbass horn, the original 15" Karlson box is about F6-F10 @50Hz outdoors.
is there a US source for the Fane 15" twin cone? I have one of the 12" and it was a lot of fun - highs somewhat "papery" but lively from the double-whizzer cone. A big open baffle system might be pretty good with electronic music.
here's a 1 watt 1 pi prediction for the University Classic with stock back chamber size (80 liter), loaded with a JBL M151
bass guitar speaker
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Ceiling corner horns through the midbass (~100 Hz) such that one could separate off the low frequency to distributed subwoofers?
a little midbass corner horn would be interesting - are there any plans?
a Delta10A in a little Karlson, sitting on the floor would have a lot of kick for its size. A DIY K-tube on top would work for the treble.
"K10" size with Delta 10A next to an original Karlson K15
a Delta10A in a little Karlson, sitting on the floor would have a lot of kick for its size. A DIY K-tube on top would work for the treble.
"K10" size with Delta 10A next to an original Karlson K15
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
You might want a greater focus on bass extension than most here if electronic music is the bulk of what you listen to. PPSL and tapped horn designs may be good for that - perhaps TH if space allows, PPSL if not, although Patrick Bateman and others have shown off some small and effective TH designs, including at least one that uses push-pull loading to gain some of the advantages in cancellation of distortion and enclosure movement that you would get with a PPSL.
A Thread for those interested in PPSL enclosures
The Smallest Tapped Horn
Tapped Horn for Dummies
Drivers to look at:
Dayton Reference
Dayton Ultimax
Peerless SLS
Peerless XLS
Eminence LAB12
Alpine Type-S
Alpine Type-R
Maybe others but those are the ones that I seem to remember coming up a lot as cost effective.
A Thread for those interested in PPSL enclosures
The Smallest Tapped Horn
Tapped Horn for Dummies
Drivers to look at:
Dayton Reference
Dayton Ultimax
Peerless SLS
Peerless XLS
Eminence LAB12
Alpine Type-S
Alpine Type-R
Maybe others but those are the ones that I seem to remember coming up a lot as cost effective.
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