Even though I use Arta etc., at the end I like to finalize cross-over-design of my speakers by ear.
What I would love to do is to build a Infrared-Controlled solution which, as an example, let me switch components of my crossover-network back and forth while music is playing. So, lets assume a L-Pad in front of the tweeter, so a resistor in series and another in parallel. It would be quiet cool to switch between a -1db,-2db, -3db scenario -obviously all with the same impedance and both speakers at the same time, so both resistors gets exchanged by two different other ones in the signal path...like a ladder volume control, but remote controlled.
Has anyone done this ? Ideally based on the back of an existing chinese kit ?
Ideally the same could be used later to switch condensor/coils like going from 12db Linkwitz to 12db Bessel or Butterworth maintaining the cross-over-frequency...
This would for sure elimante pscho-analytical effects when you go from one scenario to the other by soldering back and forth...simply switching while you hear the same piece of music will help to evaluate more consistently.
What I would love to do is to build a Infrared-Controlled solution which, as an example, let me switch components of my crossover-network back and forth while music is playing. So, lets assume a L-Pad in front of the tweeter, so a resistor in series and another in parallel. It would be quiet cool to switch between a -1db,-2db, -3db scenario -obviously all with the same impedance and both speakers at the same time, so both resistors gets exchanged by two different other ones in the signal path...like a ladder volume control, but remote controlled.
Has anyone done this ? Ideally based on the back of an existing chinese kit ?
Ideally the same could be used later to switch condensor/coils like going from 12db Linkwitz to 12db Bessel or Butterworth maintaining the cross-over-frequency...
This would for sure elimante pscho-analytical effects when you go from one scenario to the other by soldering back and forth...simply switching while you hear the same piece of music will help to evaluate more consistently.
There are heaps of cheap IR relay modules around. The problem is that the off-brand relays most of them use will probably present a problem in a speaker crossover because their contact wetting current is too high (the contacts have high resistance until a certain current passes through them)
To be honest I think you will have better luck running additional sets of heavy gauge Fig8 speaker wire from the crossovers to your seating position and using manual switches. Inductance shouldn't be a problem because the two wires cancel each other out. The parasitic capacitance shouldn't be a problem but I guess it depends on your crossover design.
To be honest I think you will have better luck running additional sets of heavy gauge Fig8 speaker wire from the crossovers to your seating position and using manual switches. Inductance shouldn't be a problem because the two wires cancel each other out. The parasitic capacitance shouldn't be a problem but I guess it depends on your crossover design.
Not always practical because passive crossovers don't follow ideal slopes. Might work out OK for simulating level adjustment with a well behaved L pad (assuming you bi-amp the passively crossed speakers)
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Hmmm, well maybe indeed a mechanical solution with long wires...
...MiniDSP ist a nice general idea if you start, I guess. But here we talk aboit the final stage of fine tuning where you can the difference of materials and geometrie of capacitors, or coils. I guess a hexalitz Intertechnik 3.56mm coil and its wonderful fine-dynamics and resolution will not be improved by a Minidsp.
...MiniDSP ist a nice general idea if you start, I guess. But here we talk aboit the final stage of fine tuning where you can the difference of materials and geometrie of capacitors, or coils. I guess a hexalitz Intertechnik 3.56mm coil and its wonderful fine-dynamics and resolution will not be improved by a Minidsp.
I understand....and this is just to do scenario-testing as described above, once the right values found, it will be soldered in not to have relays in the signal path...
Arduino solution is fine as well, but why do you consider this as easy ? I am happy to work myself into it, but does this not require quiet a bit of effort regarding programming etc. ?
Arduino solution is fine as well, but why do you consider this as easy ? I am happy to work myself into it, but does this not require quiet a bit of effort regarding programming etc. ?
I am sure they might do this, but only when you got the experience...I would already see a few steps more: Learn Arduino, connecet relais with it, connect infrared contol capability and remote control with it...programm the whole stuff.
Quiet a bit of stuff to learn.
Would not something much simpler do the job, just came across:
12v Vier Kanal 4-Kanal RF Wireless Fernsteuerung: Amazon.de: Elektronik
Two of these and good ?
Quiet a bit of stuff to learn.
Would not something much simpler do the job, just came across:
12v Vier Kanal 4-Kanal RF Wireless Fernsteuerung: Amazon.de: Elektronik
Two of these and good ?
There are quite a few arduino controlled relay boards on Amazon, eBay, etc. The arduino platform isn't difficult to learn, but I think you may be able to try some relays boards like the ones you linked to test the idea, even if just rudimentarily. Their price point is certainly cheap enough that it can't hurt to try.
FWIW, I really like the idea of a remote controlled relay board, control l-pads, level matching etc.
The convenience of being able to make those comparisons back to back as the music plays is quite nice. I do this quite a bit with my MiniDSP 4x10hd. Having that capability when voicing a passive crossover would be quite a handy tool, IMO.
Yes, but I'm sure that there are codes out there that turn on and off multiple relays with IR command.
Sure...there is a lot of stuff out there, but I do not want to spend 20 hours on this. Mor like 2-3 hours. And than it needs to be better than what the solution above would be.
Ok, ideally we have something afterwards which can do this:
-Switch between Scenarios in both speakers at the same time by pressing a remote control buttom.
- Scenarios are defined like L-Pads - Signal Levels or changing Caps and Coils in a 12 db going from Linkwitz to Bessel as an example.
Let's look now at the more complex scenario: We move from Bessel to Linkwitz, so I have two connections of a Coil and two of the Cap for each Way, so each Speaker needs eight relays if I am not mistaken.
If I got it right, Arduino has a limitation of output channels it can steer, right ? Was it 12 ? I believe so.
So, is it correct to assume that I need two eight-relay-boards and two arduinos to control 2*8 relays ?
Physically the relay boards should be directly at the cross-overs, which are two different locations.
So...if I got it right, the hardware-setup should be consist of:
- two bluetooth 8-relays arduino 5,12,24V 8 CH Channel Bluetooth Remote Control Relay Module Board for Arduino | eBay
- two arduinos with bluetooth out connecting to the realays and 433 receiver
- one 433 transmitter
Open questions:
- Are really two Adruinos needed to get the 2*8 relays working ?
- What type of relays are best for the job ? One vs. two switcher, big 250/10A types vs. small signal types with silver/gold contacts, SSD-types ?
- Software: Ideally something which allows scenario-definitions with a radio-buttom selection and not re-proframming of the whole setup each time.
Software-Logic is a table:
X- Axis: Scenario on RC
A B C D
Y-Axis:
Relay1
Relay2
.
.
.
Relay8
In that table per cell: On-Off.
...so basically this table groups the reasonable connections together in the scenario which the RC selects and can be configured depending on how you define the scenario (L-pad or filter characteristic or same components, but different makers)
Ok, ideally we have something afterwards which can do this:
-Switch between Scenarios in both speakers at the same time by pressing a remote control buttom.
- Scenarios are defined like L-Pads - Signal Levels or changing Caps and Coils in a 12 db going from Linkwitz to Bessel as an example.
Let's look now at the more complex scenario: We move from Bessel to Linkwitz, so I have two connections of a Coil and two of the Cap for each Way, so each Speaker needs eight relays if I am not mistaken.
If I got it right, Arduino has a limitation of output channels it can steer, right ? Was it 12 ? I believe so.
So, is it correct to assume that I need two eight-relay-boards and two arduinos to control 2*8 relays ?
Physically the relay boards should be directly at the cross-overs, which are two different locations.
So...if I got it right, the hardware-setup should be consist of:
- two bluetooth 8-relays arduino 5,12,24V 8 CH Channel Bluetooth Remote Control Relay Module Board for Arduino | eBay
- two arduinos with bluetooth out connecting to the realays and 433 receiver
- one 433 transmitter
Open questions:
- Are really two Adruinos needed to get the 2*8 relays working ?
- What type of relays are best for the job ? One vs. two switcher, big 250/10A types vs. small signal types with silver/gold contacts, SSD-types ?
- Software: Ideally something which allows scenario-definitions with a radio-buttom selection and not re-proframming of the whole setup each time.
Software-Logic is a table:
X- Axis: Scenario on RC
A B C D
Y-Axis:
Relay1
Relay2
.
.
.
Relay8
In that table per cell: On-Off.
...so basically this table groups the reasonable connections together in the scenario which the RC selects and can be configured depending on how you define the scenario (L-pad or filter characteristic or same components, but different makers)
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I've not tried this sort of solution, but I think i would likely get an arduino, a remote w/ transceiver module, a relay module and try to set one up to see how it all comes together.
Remote - http://a.co/idZpBpu
Relay Board - http://a.co/56Alyqd
You might be able to control it all with one Arduino, controlling two relay boards.
There may also be some projects you can leverage to your needs here:
AMB Laboratories
Remote - http://a.co/idZpBpu
Relay Board - http://a.co/56Alyqd
You might be able to control it all with one Arduino, controlling two relay boards.
There may also be some projects you can leverage to your needs here:
AMB Laboratories
Short update: I am working through it. Got a 433mhz remote control from rf power plugs switches, a receiver modul and some 8-channel switches.
Main issue is the qulity / responsiveness and distance of the RF right now. I works quiet well up to 1 meter, even with larger antennas on already. So, i just order a handful, of different receiver modules to test which one is more reliable.
I need to learn more on programming arduino to go away from current logic: Button A = on Button B= off to something which allows toggle switch with the same button, so press once= on, if pressed again=off...
I am happy to shared the code once everything really works reliable.
Main issue is the qulity / responsiveness and distance of the RF right now. I works quiet well up to 1 meter, even with larger antennas on already. So, i just order a handful, of different receiver modules to test which one is more reliable.
I need to learn more on programming arduino to go away from current logic: Button A = on Button B= off to something which allows toggle switch with the same button, so press once= on, if pressed again=off...
I am happy to shared the code once everything really works reliable.
My nomination for this application would be a good-old-fashioned-rotaary-adjustable L-pad hooked to a stepper motor with a simple stepper motor controller. If you really need the remote wireless control, hook some sort of cheap IR remote to the stepper motor controller. Should be able to scavenge all of that fairly readily, and you would have relatively infinite adjustment. You could hook your stepper motor to different L-pads for different usage applications. You wouldn't have exact readings of ohms in real time as you adjust and listen but you could "range around" to various settings, see what you like for sound, and then take reistance measurements, and then keep zeroing in. $0.02 FWIW
My thinking is of implementing a selector switch for different values, no remote just a box sitting beside the separate tweeter I want to put on top of my speaker. I know a variable L-pad can be purchased cheap enough, but I have the opinion they wouldn't be that accurate. Calculating the exact values for the resistors vs impedance of the tweeter would be a better idea in my opinion, and using better quality resistors than what would be used in the adjustable L-pad's which you can buy. It just seems the only way to switch across different L-pad networks would be to use good quality relay's?
Dear Blitz,
Like many have already said, the IR remote decoding can be easily done on inexpensive microchips without spending a lot of money or time. The actual switching maybe done using back-to-back MOSFETS or a set of relays driven from the chip.
However, it is worth remembering that all this maybe easily done using a few manual switches toggled by hand, if the measurement process is not automatic. Besides, even regular electric switches have very good conduction characteristics when compared to both relays and MOSFETs.
In my opinion the easiest way is to get a home automation kit (such as this one), along with which the switches (and quite possibly also a remote control) would already be included. It all depends on your skills and spirit.
All the best.
Like many have already said, the IR remote decoding can be easily done on inexpensive microchips without spending a lot of money or time. The actual switching maybe done using back-to-back MOSFETS or a set of relays driven from the chip.
However, it is worth remembering that all this maybe easily done using a few manual switches toggled by hand, if the measurement process is not automatic. Besides, even regular electric switches have very good conduction characteristics when compared to both relays and MOSFETs.
In my opinion the easiest way is to get a home automation kit (such as this one), along with which the switches (and quite possibly also a remote control) would already be included. It all depends on your skills and spirit.
All the best.
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Obviously, 454Casull was right 3 yrs ago: get a DSP.
Even if you are a vaccine denier and think of DSP makes bad audio sounds, nothing saner than - at the least - always using DSP to breadboard crossovers (and EQ too).
Exactly as OP seeks, with an inexpensive Behringer DSP, you just hit one or two controls and instantly A-B sound differences. Even better, use a mic and work iteratively.
Even the people most in awe of engineering truths understand that we don't have all the parameters that translate human hearing to engineer-speak (not to mention that room acoustics differ too). So you must fine-tune by ear using A-B comparisons.
B.
Looking at the costs to put together such a beast i'm sure its not worth it. I was more leaning towards the tinkering side, eg. that track sounds a bit bright lets turn the tweeter down. With the audio 'purist' thinking such as digital is bad and the earth is flat.
I do use a behringer DCX2496 but only for my subs. I still think mids and highs need the full analogue treatment.
Just for a laugh here is what a 4-step version may look like using relays and "Balanced-PI attenuator" layout.
I do use a behringer DCX2496 but only for my subs. I still think mids and highs need the full analogue treatment.
Just for a laugh here is what a 4-step version may look like using relays and "Balanced-PI attenuator" layout.
