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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Achieving full range sound in typical British living rooms - IPL Speakers S2TLK CD3.0
Achieving full range sound in typical British living rooms - IPL Speakers S2TLK CD3.0
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Old 18th March 2018, 06:19 PM   #21
scottjoplin is offline scottjoplin  Wales
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Yes, I haven't replaced the back for a while now, I'm glad I gave myself the option
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Old 18th March 2018, 06:21 PM   #22
andy19191 is offline andy19191  Europe
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Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
Scott and i have recently revisted this idea. It uses an ML-TL with bass tuning that is intended to work well with near or on wall placement. Wide and shallow tends to minimize the room placement issue that stretchneck has been erroneously associated with a TL.
I built a Daline in the 70s and found the configuration to be a reasonable one in that I no difficulties placing them flat against the front wall in a reasonable position. I am surprised it has not been used more often. The SPL of the speaker was limited and it would have benefited significantly from a larger driver than the B110 which is small and with limited excursion. The performance of modern tweeters means this should be straightforward in a modern 2 way design.
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Old 18th March 2018, 07:16 PM   #23
stretchneck is offline stretchneck  United Kingdom
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Well this is all very informative for me - even though my understanding as a beginner is not perfect I have tried various sealed, front and rear ported speakers and they haven’t worked as well in a near wall arrangement. Whatever it is about the transmission line design it does help. I don’t know what the tuning frequency is of the speakers/room or indeed how to answer this question? Any further tips? I’m facinated by the cardioid speaker idea, but could only attempt this it it was a DIY kit - no way I have the skills to design it myself. I’d like to go three way next time if poss.
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Old 18th March 2018, 08:36 PM   #24
scottjoplin is offline scottjoplin  Wales
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Have your speakers BSC? Have you tried then in the corners?
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Old 18th March 2018, 08:56 PM   #25
midrange is offline midrange  United Kingdom
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Achieving full range sound in typical British living rooms - IPL Speakers S2TLK CD3.0
I have just looked at the frequency response of a classic BBC speaker (LS3/5a) and it has a broad dip centred around 300 Hz. I cannot really see any appreciable dip at 3k.

I find the considerable dip of 5dB from 3-5k in the IPL FR really unusual. If it sounds good then okay, but it is certainly intriguing.
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Old 18th March 2018, 09:17 PM   #26
planet10 is offline planet10  Canada
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Achieving full range sound in typical British living rooms - IPL Speakers S2TLK CD3.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
Earlier in the week i speculated about a similar “daline” that mounting the driver on the “back” would get one some driver offset and help kill ripple.
Here is a simulation that shows how the ripple changes in a daline depending on where the driver is placed in relation to the TL-stub, confirming my speculation… Alpair 10.3, no stuffing (so as to exagerate the ripple)/. Thanx to Scott.

Achieving full range sound in typical British living rooms - IPL Speakers S2TLK CD3.0-sstl-driver-positions-daline-png

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Old 19th March 2018, 08:13 AM   #27
stretchneck is offline stretchneck  United Kingdom
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Thanks for this Dave - I shall have to read more about these Decoupled Anti-resonant Line Loudspeaker's. Any examples with the driver mounted on the back?
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Old 19th March 2018, 08:32 PM   #28
Scottmoose is offline Scottmoose  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midrange View Post
I have just looked at the frequency response of a classic BBC speaker (LS3/5a) and it has a broad dip centred around 300 Hz.
Correct. Derived from the BBC's acoustic scaling research.

Quote:
I cannot really see any appreciable dip at 3k.
There isn't one in the LS3/5a. As a compact monitor for broadcast vans, this was not desirable.

Quote:
I find the considerable dip of 5dB from 3-5k in the IPL FR really unusual. If it sounds good then okay, but it is certainly intriguing.
What is frequently called the 'BBC dip' re output suppression in the ~1.5KHz - 3KHz region was not really used by the BBC very often (hardly ever). It was advocated externally by Harwood, primarily (though not exclusively) to enhance the subjective depth perception on orchestral recordings made with a close mic. position. Exactly how broad a BW this covers & how much suppression is used depends on the speaker & the designer's goals. Harwood suggested -2dB based on research at the BBC; many use more (and many use less). Acoustics isn't always as straightforward as a ruler-flat on axis response.
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Old 20th March 2018, 08:13 AM   #29
stretchneck is offline stretchneck  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midrange View Post
I have just looked at the frequency response of a classic BBC speaker (LS3/5a) and it has a broad dip centred around 300 Hz. I cannot really see any appreciable dip at 3k.

I find the considerable dip of 5dB from 3-5k in the IPL FR really unusual. If it sounds good then okay, but it is certainly intriguing.
It could be that my assumption is incorrect, and that it's caused by the room - also if you inverse the polarity of the tweeters (it's biwired so easy to do) the dip at 3kHz increases to close to -10dB. But that only proves that they're wired up with the correct polarity I believe.

Seems that the BBC Dip is around the 3kHz area, not a broad dip centered around 300 Hz as mentioned on a prior comment - which may be for some other reason. The 3kHz dip does aid the spaciousness of sound. B&W 802D's apparently have this same dip, as do many other brands of speaker.
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Old 20th March 2018, 10:58 AM   #30
peterbrorsson is offline peterbrorsson  Sweden
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Originally Posted by Scottmoose View Post
...to enhance the subjective depth perception on orchestral recordings made with a close mic. position
Hmm, I had some time to play with my Sonido horn last weekend. As a fullrange driver, the excess of mids were taken down with DSP similar to the BBC dip.

It actually works, switching back and forth, the perception of depth increases with a "hammock" setting.

Same with when sitting to the left, the right speaker could not be heard, "hammock" made the right speaker detectable...

End of useless subjective rant

Peter
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