Just was wondering if anyone has experience with these drivers. I have always looked right past P-Audio until a friend told me about Spatial audio Hologram M4 he just recently listened to. He was very impressed with the mid & high frequency response so i did a little research and was shocked to discover the drivers used were 15" Eminence BETA-15CX and P-audio BM-D440S 1" screw on driver. This makes for a really affordable 15" coaxial i was also surprised to see Spatial using a 800 HZ crossover for a 1" driver.
The Eminence is available at Ordering Eminence BETA-15CX 15"Co-Axial Speakers - FactoryDirectSpeakers.com for $100 and the P-Audio is $75 at P.Audio BM-D440S Seriss II- P.Audio BM-D440S Series II 1" screw on type high frequency compression driver. P.Audio speaker components available at US Speaker.
This combo's price is great you can get a pair of 15" coaxial for under $400
The Spatial hologram M4 sell for $2000 and have good reviews using very inexpensive drivers just curious to see what you guys think about a 800 HZ crossover for a 1" driver how can this be the lowest i have ever crossed a 1" driver is 1200 HZ and some people even think that is to low for a 1" driver.
The Eminence is available at Ordering Eminence BETA-15CX 15"Co-Axial Speakers - FactoryDirectSpeakers.com for $100 and the P-Audio is $75 at P.Audio BM-D440S Seriss II- P.Audio BM-D440S Series II 1" screw on type high frequency compression driver. P.Audio speaker components available at US Speaker.
This combo's price is great you can get a pair of 15" coaxial for under $400
The Spatial hologram M4 sell for $2000 and have good reviews using very inexpensive drivers just curious to see what you guys think about a 800 HZ crossover for a 1" driver how can this be the lowest i have ever crossed a 1" driver is 1200 HZ and some people even think that is to low for a 1" driver.
I love Eminence woofers and wonder if their “rough around the edges” sound is an attractive differentiator in the hi-end market? Certainly Klipsch’s use of raucous pro sound drivers in their Heritage line has proven successful.
The Eminence Coax line seems to recieve lackluster reviews specifically when it comes to transitioning to a tweeter. But in reality, when listening, is this non-optimal transition audible or important? Does it detract from our musical enjoyment by adding ‘color’ to the sound or add personality that’s subjectively positive?
Having said that, crossing the P-Audio tweeter at around 800Hz (I am not sure what the crossover is) would no doubt destroy it if played at high volumes for extended periods - but are our home listening needs so much less strenuous that a 1.75” voice coil can be used successfully at such a low crossover?
These cheap compression drivers with 1.7” voice coils come to mind:
Dayton Audio D250P-8 1" Polyimide Compression Horn Driver
Pyle PDS442 1" Titanium Horn Driver 1-3/8"-18 TPI
Pyle PDS772 1" Titanium Horn Driver 1-3/8"-18 TPI
As well as this more expensive one:
B&C DE250-8 1" Polyimide Horn Driver 8 Ohm 2/3-Bolt
The Eminence Coax line seems to recieve lackluster reviews specifically when it comes to transitioning to a tweeter. But in reality, when listening, is this non-optimal transition audible or important? Does it detract from our musical enjoyment by adding ‘color’ to the sound or add personality that’s subjectively positive?
Having said that, crossing the P-Audio tweeter at around 800Hz (I am not sure what the crossover is) would no doubt destroy it if played at high volumes for extended periods - but are our home listening needs so much less strenuous that a 1.75” voice coil can be used successfully at such a low crossover?
These cheap compression drivers with 1.7” voice coils come to mind:
Dayton Audio D250P-8 1" Polyimide Compression Horn Driver
Pyle PDS442 1" Titanium Horn Driver 1-3/8"-18 TPI
Pyle PDS772 1" Titanium Horn Driver 1-3/8"-18 TPI
As well as this more expensive one:
B&C DE250-8 1" Polyimide Horn Driver 8 Ohm 2/3-Bolt
That kinda depends on who is using it. If the listener is someone who got horn speakers because they look like they can play REAL LOUD, then he will probably play them TOO LOUD and would wipe out said driver! If he is someone who got them because they can provide directivity control for more convincing playback of acoustic music, then it would probably be fine. If I were making a speaker for commercial sale or for someone else (who knows how they would really get used down the road?) I'd probably go for a higher and maybe steeper crossover point.
I got a couple of P-Audio 15CXHB years ago, and still have them, cos they are pretty good. If I remember right, they use series I of the same HF driver. They are no longer available (but you can still get recone kits).
A large reason for selecting my coaxials was the spec sheet. It indicated they have a lot of smooth overlap between the two drivers.
http://www.paudio.ro/pdf/products/BM-15CXHB.pdf
This makes a simple crossover pretty easy. I made a passive (textbook) crossover, then tweaked it by ear, and the result turned out to be pretty flat when measured. The polars were also surprisingly good - better than what I've seen published for the (similar looking) Altec 604.
This newer coaxial looks like good value at the sale price. I don't know what CD it uses, but the FR plots are decent*, and it looks like an easy 1.5-2kHz crossover.
P Audio SN15-600CXF Co-Ax Speaker
*some smoothing and a marketing friendly vertical scale, but better than they used to be.
A large reason for selecting my coaxials was the spec sheet. It indicated they have a lot of smooth overlap between the two drivers.
http://www.paudio.ro/pdf/products/BM-15CXHB.pdf
This makes a simple crossover pretty easy. I made a passive (textbook) crossover, then tweaked it by ear, and the result turned out to be pretty flat when measured. The polars were also surprisingly good - better than what I've seen published for the (similar looking) Altec 604.
This newer coaxial looks like good value at the sale price. I don't know what CD it uses, but the FR plots are decent*, and it looks like an easy 1.5-2kHz crossover.
P Audio SN15-600CXF Co-Ax Speaker
*some smoothing and a marketing friendly vertical scale, but better than they used to be.
Random observations:
1) Mr Shaw has generally used inexpensive drivers. Back when he started Emerald Physics, he was also using Eminence woofers
2) I don't think I've ever heard a bad speaker from him. I came pretty close to buying his speakers before I bought a pair of Summas
3) As I see it, Shaw has gradually made his speakers 'friendlier' to regular audiophiles. IE, the Emerald Physics were a bit of a mess, with an outboard DSP, lots of cables, lots of setup. The new speakers are closer to 'conventional' audiophile speakers and look less like a science experiment.
4) As far as the crossover point goes, keep in mind that you can actually run compression drivers without a crossover if you're pretty gentle with the volume knob! For instance, you can get up to about 110dB at 1000Hz without exceeding five watts. Compression drivers use an extraordinarily small backchamber, and this creates a steep rolloff and the chamber itself limits excursion. This is all by design, to maximize output and make them "bulletproof." Compression drivers are designed to take a heck of a lot more abuse than a conventional tweeter.
Haven't checked into those compression drivers, but consider this - you're asking a HF unit that's capable of 120dB+ (above ~2kHz) to mate to a pair of open-baffle 15"s.
I'd expect the 15"s to run out of steam well before the HF unit shows signs struggling, even with the low crossover point.
Chris
I'd expect the 15"s to run out of steam well before the HF unit shows signs struggling, even with the low crossover point.
Chris
The smaller sizes are still available:
Eminence Beta 12CX coaxial speaker. The Eminence Beta 12CX is a 12" 8 ohm coaxial speaker.
The 15" that I linked earlier is still available, looks good, and is about the same price as the Eminence bits:
P Audio SN15-600CXF Co-Ax Speaker
Eminence Beta 12CX coaxial speaker. The Eminence Beta 12CX is a 12" 8 ohm coaxial speaker.
The 15" that I linked earlier is still available, looks good, and is about the same price as the Eminence bits:
P Audio SN15-600CXF Co-Ax Speaker
If you hammer out the resonances using a DSP, almost any compression driver will sound good at low home audio sound pressure levels.
The Eminence woofer might need a bit of trimming as the voice coil extends a bit too far forward, causing a rough edge in the transition from horn to woofer cone. At least the old 12CX's had that.
The Eminence horn is shaped such that it beams at high (say > 5 kHz) frequencies. Modern coaxials like the B&C 8FCX51 flare out quicker and have this issue to a lesser extent:
B&C Speakers
100 deg nominal dispersion, which is kept to about 10 kHz
The Eminence woofer might need a bit of trimming as the voice coil extends a bit too far forward, causing a rough edge in the transition from horn to woofer cone. At least the old 12CX's had that.
The Eminence horn is shaped such that it beams at high (say > 5 kHz) frequencies. Modern coaxials like the B&C 8FCX51 flare out quicker and have this issue to a lesser extent:
B&C Speakers
100 deg nominal dispersion, which is kept to about 10 kHz
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Beta 15CX
The Beta15CX is available Ordering Eminence BETA-15CX 15"Co-Axial Speakers - FactoryDirectSpeakers.com
I recently had a chance to hear some Beta 15CX and 12CX and was less than impressed
The Beta15CX is available Ordering Eminence BETA-15CX 15"Co-Axial Speakers - FactoryDirectSpeakers.com
I recently had a chance to hear some Beta 15CX and 12CX and was less than impressed
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