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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Faitalpro 6FE200 ... stamped steel frame ?
Faitalpro 6FE200 ... stamped steel frame ?
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Old 10th March 2018, 04:20 PM   #1
Flaxxer is offline Flaxxer  United States
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Default Faitalpro 6FE200 ... stamped steel frame ?

I realize these are dirt cheap drivers. But should this concern anyone, considering a build with them? At just over double the cost, Faital and others make very nice drivers, with aluminum frames. Thoughts please?
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Old 10th March 2018, 05:15 PM   #2
Lojzek is offline Lojzek  Croatia
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My thoughts, to each (pocket) his own. I would not bet on the stamped steel frame going anywhere while the midrange cone is shaking at 200 Hz and higher.
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Old 10th March 2018, 09:42 PM   #3
planet10 is offline planet10  Canada
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Faitalpro 6FE200 ... stamped steel frame ?
Execution is important… there are good stamped steel baskets & poor ones...there are good cast aluminum baskets & poor ones… there are good plastic baskets & poor ones…

Of my favourite 3 drivers (FR mid you), 2 have plastic baskets, 1 has stamped steel. Helper woofers, 1 plastic, 2 aluminum.

dave
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Old 10th March 2018, 10:27 PM   #4
Vortex is offline Vortex  Hungary
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Send a message via ICQ to Vortex Faitalpro 6FE200 ... stamped steel frame ?
I'm going to build with the 6FE100 drivers, 4pcs for 1 side so 8 overall. Low fs while crossed at 125Hz with the woofer.
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Old 11th March 2018, 12:58 AM   #5
Flaxxer is offline Flaxxer  United States
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Okay. I see what you guys are saying. So for my education, would be fair to expect the 6FE200 to be able to perform equally on all levels, with speakers costing up to say, $130 ... like some of these, for example ?

B&C 6PEV13 6-1/2" Midrange Speaker

FaitalPRO W6N8-120 6" Neodymium Professional Midrange 8 Ohm

Or this ... PRV Audio 6MR500-NDY-4 6-1/2" Neodymium Midrange Woofer 4 Ohm


No joke ... I am just wanting to learn. Is it safely expected that quality drivers like these, at these price differences, are going to sound better?
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Old 11th March 2018, 08:10 AM   #6
Lojzek is offline Lojzek  Croatia
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Hi Flaxxer, you are asking questions that would need elaborate scientific and very hard to execute blind experiments. Let me put it as simple as this, if you have trouble or don't feel like affording more expensive units, then the solution is obvious.
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Old 11th March 2018, 11:15 AM   #7
Vortex is offline Vortex  Hungary
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Send a message via ICQ to Vortex Faitalpro 6FE200 ... stamped steel frame ?
Agree.

@ Flaxxer I think what you should mainly look for (this applies to ANY price category) is the overall amplitude response, the sound pressure level graph a driver is producing. These are mostly found on speaker datasheets - if not, I would avoid those completely 'cause they're hiding something then. But most which have such a curve are using more or less valid data, these are of course smoothed/averaged graphs (you don't see very small peaks/dips) but nevertheless, they tell a lot about a certain driver's characteristics.

PA manufacturers tend to keep themselves more strictly to stated specs while looking at home audio drivers you might see some more deviations in reality (when measuring a driver) against stated specs. But there're also very good ones matching the specs almost exactly.

Faital has a good reputation and I also chose this brand for my project, in worst case we can still sell the midbass drivers but hey, it's PA line and the specs are pretty good.

Back to our SPL analysis: look at the freq. curve of the Faital 6FE200 and now the PRV Audio 6MR500.. or the B&C 6PEV13 midrange.

The Faital has a pretty smooth sound pressure level on most of it's planned used frequency range while the PRV also not bad but begins to have some compromises here and there which might be on a music material still not audible I think. But when I look at this specific B&C's curve I think it's really looking bad: a constantly increasing SPL for the same input voltage which is more of a problem than average nominal sensitivity or anything else.. with a constantly increasing freq. curve you simply have difficulties 'cause in midranges a dB difference of let's say ~5-10dB is really audible (depending on crossover and passband freq. range). Different opinions about the exact value of audible SPL difference within a speaker but this is way too much for everybody to state it's 'flat') .. so .. take a real world example, the greater the increase in SPL curve the greater the perceived loudness of the speaker. And amplitude (simplified to perceived loudness) is the 1st thing our ears are mostly sensitive of.

So in general this B&C could be crossed between .. dunno.. let's say .. ~ 300Hz and 2KHz and already having a general smooth 5dB shift between the two ends in SPL. Just FYI +6 dB is what needs 1/2 power to drive for the same SPL (when speaking in terms of needed amplifier power) and when you drive this midrange with the same constant voltage it's getting louder as frequency rises.. so I think this B&C is only useful when you don't care much about sensitivity and as frequency gets higher the midrange also gets higher.

On a normal music material this still might diminish or we simply don't recognize it and then this midrange can be useful, especially when we count in room reflections etc. But if you're striving for a precise sound and balanced image you might look for other drivers which have a flatter freq. response. Everything else is pretty much "negotiable" like sensitivity, nominal impedance etc. etc. with silver wiring at the (almost) very end of the list if you want to reach the stars, but as a very first most important factor for your ears to satisfy them is the perceived loudness of your drivers (if there're more than a fullrange), nobody wants certain frequencies (especially midrange) to be higher or louder at the same volume setting as a woman sings let's say.

Whatever you choose, PA or home stuff, dirt cheap or expensive like gold, frequency amplitude response should be as flat as possible. Local tiny dips/peaks are okay and mostly inaudible on music material but constantly rising/falling curves on a wider frequency range is audible - and also makes crossover design a pain in the a**.

Final words: whatever you buy, depending what you're going to use them for, it might be great for sharing that with the community here before you buy the "wrong" drivers. Amplitude response is just 1 parameter to watch out for when you're going to design a complete speaker with different drivers and there're many other things to be carefully considered before buying.
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Last edited by Vortex; 11th March 2018 at 11:20 AM.
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Old 11th March 2018, 11:26 AM   #8
Vortex is offline Vortex  Hungary
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Send a message via ICQ to Vortex Faitalpro 6FE200 ... stamped steel frame ?
Having all that said, my point is: it's much more worth looking at specifications than thinking about basket or other materials. PA stuff is pretty strong in general, the cheap price is maintained through large volume manufacturing in China and the complete lack of voodoo-bs in the design. They're just plain simple drivers with no big magic, they're reliable and depending on model they have good sonic characteristics.. even without a fancy phase plug or banana-leaves-cone. And if they don't fit ? You don't loose a lot of money.. TRY them !

At the very-very end you ears will be the judge.
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Old 11th March 2018, 11:41 AM   #9
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Send a message via ICQ to Vortex Faitalpro 6FE200 ... stamped steel frame ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
Execution is important… there are good stamped steel baskets & poor ones...there are good cast aluminum baskets & poor ones… there are good plastic baskets & poor ones…
dave
+1

@ Flaxxer: btw a too weak basket material would (also) increase the driver's resonance frequency or even induce 2nd resonance somewhere.. so I don't think it's an issue despite cheap price and seemingly thin basket material. These are still PA drivers not built for 2 weeks drive at 1/10 volume levels but the opposite. Price is mainly low due to volume-cost-efficiency, affordable (but not necessarily bad) material usage (no exotics) and low labor cost.
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Old 11th March 2018, 03:14 PM   #10
Flaxxer is offline Flaxxer  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lojzek View Post
Hi Flaxxer, you are asking questions that would need elaborate scientific and very hard to execute blind experiments. Let me put it as simple as this, if you have trouble or don't feel like affording more expensive units, then the solution is obvious.
No. It is not the funds at all. I am just trying to find where the point of diminishing returns are set in Pro Audio DIY. I also really am curious about this subject. I need to learn.
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