Hi guys,
I am build a pair of 4-way towers. For a 12x20 room for classical music and jazz, some rock. They will be powered through a DSP and an 8 channel amp, individually wired. The main objective is imaging. What does one look for drivers in "matching" a 3 or 4-way speaker build? I was thinking as long as you have overlapping frequency response and similar efficiency the rest could be taken care of in digital crossover? Any ideas, info and criticisms would be appreciated. I'd hate to purchase these and realize I'd done something wrong.
The drivers I've come up with are these, on the premise that the F3 dives well into the drivers response below it:
Scanspeak Discovery 26W/4534G 10" Aluminum Cone Woofer 4 ohm
ScanSpeak 22W/4534G00 Discovery 8" Woofer 4 ohm
Scanspeak Discovery 10F/4424G, 4" Midrange 4 ohm
ScanSpeak Illuminator D3004/6020-00 Tweeter Textile Dome
Maybe a link to a previous thread?
I am build a pair of 4-way towers. For a 12x20 room for classical music and jazz, some rock. They will be powered through a DSP and an 8 channel amp, individually wired. The main objective is imaging. What does one look for drivers in "matching" a 3 or 4-way speaker build? I was thinking as long as you have overlapping frequency response and similar efficiency the rest could be taken care of in digital crossover? Any ideas, info and criticisms would be appreciated. I'd hate to purchase these and realize I'd done something wrong.
The drivers I've come up with are these, on the premise that the F3 dives well into the drivers response below it:
Scanspeak Discovery 26W/4534G 10" Aluminum Cone Woofer 4 ohm
ScanSpeak 22W/4534G00 Discovery 8" Woofer 4 ohm
Scanspeak Discovery 10F/4424G, 4" Midrange 4 ohm
ScanSpeak Illuminator D3004/6020-00 Tweeter Textile Dome
Maybe a link to a previous thread?
Well, it's both easier and trickier than you would think.
Easier because the drivers don't have to match up to the point of tons of overlap, as you would want with passive.
Trickier because you do need more efficiency at the low end, as your eight channel amp has the same power for all frequency ranges. If you get a couple channels with more power, no sweat.
One thing to remember is that many multichannel amps are current-limited by heatsink and power supply issues, so maybe go 8 ohm, you should have enough sensitivity(and with dsp you won't be padding anything down & losing voltage). ScanSpeak does give you more 8 ohm choices than most.
If you want to make it easy on yourself, look at Troels' SS builds for driver combos, if they work passive, they will be great active.
Look at his 3way classics, and add your lower bass. If you want max spl, look at the driver combos in his 4ways, slightly bigger mids for more volume. If not, you really can't beat any of the 10Fs for dispersion.
Sounds like fun.
Easier because the drivers don't have to match up to the point of tons of overlap, as you would want with passive.
Trickier because you do need more efficiency at the low end, as your eight channel amp has the same power for all frequency ranges. If you get a couple channels with more power, no sweat.
One thing to remember is that many multichannel amps are current-limited by heatsink and power supply issues, so maybe go 8 ohm, you should have enough sensitivity(and with dsp you won't be padding anything down & losing voltage). ScanSpeak does give you more 8 ohm choices than most.
If you want to make it easy on yourself, look at Troels' SS builds for driver combos, if they work passive, they will be great active.
Look at his 3way classics, and add your lower bass. If you want max spl, look at the driver combos in his 4ways, slightly bigger mids for more volume. If not, you really can't beat any of the 10Fs for dispersion.
Sounds like fun.
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You just have to be aware of something.
When you build a slim tower speaker, with several smaller drivers. You tend to get a wider dispersion. When you do this, you have to make sure that you do not have to many early reflections in your listening room, or else it can degrade the performance of that speaker.
Reflections in most listening rooms are the main factor of the sound we hear - so this has to be taken into account.
Earl Geddes makes speakers with constant and somewhat lower dispersion. This makes the speaker less problematic in a normal room, since the early reflection are fewer. Later reflections are not so big a problem, since the ear can filter them out as spaciousness and therefore serves as something good.
So your project can be great, as long as you try to get an even horizontal dispersion and take care of the worst early reflections in your room.
This video with Floyd E. Toole says a lot:
YouTube
When you build a slim tower speaker, with several smaller drivers. You tend to get a wider dispersion. When you do this, you have to make sure that you do not have to many early reflections in your listening room, or else it can degrade the performance of that speaker.
Reflections in most listening rooms are the main factor of the sound we hear - so this has to be taken into account.
Earl Geddes makes speakers with constant and somewhat lower dispersion. This makes the speaker less problematic in a normal room, since the early reflection are fewer. Later reflections are not so big a problem, since the ear can filter them out as spaciousness and therefore serves as something good.
So your project can be great, as long as you try to get an even horizontal dispersion and take care of the worst early reflections in your room.
This video with Floyd E. Toole says a lot:
YouTube
I would however definitely avoid Purchasing Disovery midrange. It's their basic line, and instead I would purchase SB Acoustics Satori midrange, and two 22cmm bass instead, and you should still be financially somewhere in the same region. Also check berrylium Satori tweeter, but that might be bit more expensive than Revelator.
At least for the midrange I would go for like 12 cm of much better quality (Satori, Revelator, Eton, and so on) and put two 22 bass drivers instead of 22 and 26 to save some money of woofers.
However, you have to do a cost simulation on that.
At least for the midrange I would go for like 12 cm of much better quality (Satori, Revelator, Eton, and so on) and put two 22 bass drivers instead of 22 and 26 to save some money of woofers.
However, you have to do a cost simulation on that.
Hi there, take a look at Dynaudio Consequence UE and Wharfedale Airedale Classic Heritage as a matter of a principle.
A suggestion not very expensive at US$ 650 for a stereo setup.
- Morel MDT 39=1.1" dome tweeter
- Morel MDM 55=2" dome midrange
- Scan Speak Classic P17WJ00=6.5" poly cone midbass
- Scan Speak Discovery 26W/4534= 10" aluminum cone woofer
Boswald- would the gain knob on the amp as well as the EQ of the DSP not coimpensate for this? I do need to educate myself more on the relationship between impedance and sensitivity.
Lojzek- that is weird, I was already thinking of using that hf driver, and switching the mid to the Audax 100dB. Im seriously shooting in the dark here, and assumed any $100 speaker could be MADE to work with a decent setup.
Thanks for the replies guys. Much appreciated.
Lojzek- that is weird, I was already thinking of using that hf driver, and switching the mid to the Audax 100dB. Im seriously shooting in the dark here, and assumed any $100 speaker could be MADE to work with a decent setup.
Thanks for the replies guys. Much appreciated.
The Freq response looks fairly identical, can you explain why you would prefer the AirCirc? Have you heard them both?
There is nothing to be worried about choosing the smaller flanged D3004 over air circ. Lower sensitivity caused by a weaker magnet that increases response at Fs is of no consequence for you are going to high pass higher and it's active. SD2 motor have both of the units, fair is fair.
Literally as large as I feel like making them. Very, very large room with a cathedral ceiling and no neighbors. And the enclosure material and veneer isn't a cost Im even worried about. I can't see spending more than $500 in drivers per tower without understanding why.
Let's play Spinoza, and define our terms.
Sensitivity is how loud it gets at a given voltage.
Efficiency is how loud it gets with a given wattage.
Your max spl is determined by displacement(area of diaphragm times travel, w/o melting anything electrical).[also there is variation of coupling efficiency with the air]
Watts are volts times amps.
Impedance is essentially resistance for alternating current(oh boy-AC also includes varying voltage, but let's leave that aside for now and call it a sort of resistance).
A higher impedance resists the flow of current, and thus requires a higher voltage to drive the diaphragm as far; a lower requires less(car speakers are 4 ohm because you are limited in voltage swing without fancy power supplies).
More watts means more heat, touch a 15 watt bulb, then a 40(leave that 100 alone). So your heat sink limits your power, as does the power supply.
You can play games like lower impedance for lower frequency ranges, within the limits of power supply and dissipation. Speakers are complexes of compromises.
Like a marriage, choose your fights.
Sensitivity is how loud it gets at a given voltage.
Efficiency is how loud it gets with a given wattage.
Your max spl is determined by displacement(area of diaphragm times travel, w/o melting anything electrical).[also there is variation of coupling efficiency with the air]
Watts are volts times amps.
Impedance is essentially resistance for alternating current(oh boy-AC also includes varying voltage, but let's leave that aside for now and call it a sort of resistance).
A higher impedance resists the flow of current, and thus requires a higher voltage to drive the diaphragm as far; a lower requires less(car speakers are 4 ohm because you are limited in voltage swing without fancy power supplies).
More watts means more heat, touch a 15 watt bulb, then a 40(leave that 100 alone). So your heat sink limits your power, as does the power supply.
You can play games like lower impedance for lower frequency ranges, within the limits of power supply and dissipation. Speakers are complexes of compromises.
Like a marriage, choose your fights.
Thank you for staying engaged, Lojzek. Im not sure if you can see this but these are the tentatives on this build. I should be pulling the trigger on the drivers this week. Unless I pick up a used 8 channel McIntosh a guy has listed locally. Should be about a 2 month build, depending on the veneer availability. Probably $2.5-$3k U.S.
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Right on. I remember most of this from my Navy days, but it bears repeating. Thank you. (actually a good teacher)
BUT! why would I alter my design impedence on my drivers if I am using active amping/crossover and digital sound processing, not to mention the tiny little Gain knob on the back of the overpriced 8 channel Irish amp?
I think Im getting this. So! An 8 ohm woofer is going to use less watts and therefore not heat up the amp as much? Despite the lower dB rating of the 8ohm driver. And no audible difference? Because at 53, I don't see myself running that system at max volume very often. If it came to clarity vs. volume/watts, I'd choose clarity. I have a very loud stereo now. Imaging
Scanspeak actually has the speakers I spec'd in 8 ohm. And no price difference. Ridiculously reasonable at $88
Right? $90k do all speakers. Youre the second Scandinavian to refer me towards beam reflection and room manipulation. Linkwitz said after he built the Orion, that its all about the room and speaker placement. If I knew what I was doing I would design this pair to this particular room. One problem is, it is a glass room. 3 sides anyhow. Once set in place, these heavy beasts will not move in my lifetime. I may experiment later with directing/bouncing tweeters. Its just adding one more channel to a dsp.
In this case you must consider prosound drivers. Scroll the linked thread to see one example of a speaker that would fit a large room with very little compromise.
Active high dynamics/SPL & high performance loudspeaker system for my living room…!
Oh my. That's a system. It'll take me a day to decipher the info in that thread. But yeah, the room in question is larger than that (12'x20' and 12' tall at the peak) and will have a fireplace, a stereo, a few plants, and commercial grade double glazing. An empty glass box. Im not sure power would be as much an issue as unwanted reflections off the glass.
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