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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Arum Cantus AST25120, or the Beyma TPL-150 ?
Arum Cantus AST25120, or the Beyma TPL-150 ?
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Old 2nd March 2018, 11:18 PM   #1
Flaxxer is offline Flaxxer  United States
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Default Arum Cantus AST25120, or the Beyma TPL-150 ?

Has anyone heard them both? I will be using one of them, to match with 96db efficient mid range drivers. The mids can play nicely up to 6000 hz, but I do understand crossing as low as the tweeter allows, is where magic happens.

These will be in a 3-way active system with DSP. Efficiency between the two units should not be an issue, with the amount of control that allows me. I want them to play rock like you are there, and also be able to do audiophile music with finesse. These are only for indoor, living room use.

I don't really know how to model, to compare them when mixed with the mid range driver I am using. Both have nice FR graphs. But beyond that, I am too new to be able to look at the specs, and gather which seems to be the better choice, for what I am looking for.


[IMG]Click the image to open in full size.AST251202 by Cullen Graham, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]Click the image to open in full size.AST25120 by Cullen Graham, on Flickr[/IMG]

OR,


[IMG]Click the image to open in full size.tpl150_air_motion_transformer_front_sc by Cullen Graham, on Flickr[/IMG]


[IMG]Click the image to open in full size.TPL150 by Cullen Graham, on Flickr[/IMG]


[IMG]Click the image to open in full size.TPL1502 by Cullen Graham, on Flickr[/IMG]

Moderators ...please don't move this. I moved from the alternate speakers section, due to zero replies after days on end.
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Old 2nd March 2018, 11:21 PM   #2
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaxxer View Post
I do understand crossing as low as the tweeter allows, is where magic happens.
-and with that you have your answer.
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Old 2nd March 2018, 11:22 PM   #3
Flaxxer is offline Flaxxer  United States
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What ??? LOL Both of these appear almost identical to my newbie eyes.
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Old 2nd March 2018, 11:35 PM   #4
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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Surely not.

The Beyma is almost -10db from the average at 1 kHz.

Where the Aurum Cantus maintains it's average down to 800 Hz.


Another option for a lot less (..and even though it isn't as loud, is still more efficient at lower freq.s than the Beyma):

AMTPRO-4 Air Motion Transformer Tweeter 4 Ohm Specification Sheet
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Old 2nd March 2018, 11:48 PM   #5
Flaxxer is offline Flaxxer  United States
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I seriously considered that one, Scott. I read a couple of things about sibilance with it.

I am choosing new AMTs, as an upgrade to my mono-pole Heils. The Daytons take a dive at 18k. I kind of wanted to see what AMTs sound like, which can extended well beyond 20k

I LOVE these Heils. And want to see what even better AMTs can do. The AST25120 looks sick!
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Old 3rd March 2018, 12:00 AM   #6
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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-because you are using minidsp, you can correct freq. response, but you always need to be mindful of increasing non-linear distortion as a result. The 18k can be corrected at pretty-much no penalty.

IF you are using a Great Heil then there may not be any improvement (except at higher freq.s), and in fact it might sound worse. (..Heils often have mediocre quality control though, so sometimes there are built-in problems that other AMT's don't have.)
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Old 3rd March 2018, 12:08 AM   #7
Flaxxer is offline Flaxxer  United States
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No sir ... I am using the better sounding, smaller round Heil. At least several members have commented to me, they feel the monopole Heil sounded better.

I know it sounds VERY good. But it has to be crossed at least around 3200 to be happiest. It is at 2400 now, in the ESS speakers I'm listening to. But I want to see what known, and newer sound like.
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Old 13th November 2018, 05:27 PM   #8
OscarS is offline OscarS  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaxxer View Post
I seriously considered that one, Scott. I read a couple of things about sibilance with it.

I am choosing new AMTs, as an upgrade to my mono-pole Heils. The Daytons take a dive at 18k. I kind of wanted to see what AMTs sound like, which can extended well beyond 20k

I LOVE these Heils. And want to see what even better AMTs can do. The AST25120 looks sick!
Thread bump! Just to put my 2cents in.

Flaxxer, even though the Dayton AMTPRO-4's take a "dive" in the upper band (actually happens around 14k), when you consider the fact that they are relatively sensitive in their middle-range, you can easily EQ the top end back up if using active EQ'ing, or equivalently, passively you can notch the lower-middle of it's region to even it all out. The main penalty of using such a large AMT is that it will definitely beam at the top end of it's spectrum, and if you're too close well then the sweet-spot becomes more critical than if you were at a large listening distance.

Here you can see I'm testing it out vs other AMT's for a design I have on the back-burner:

Click the image to open in full size.

This is the FR with 2V input, but raised 3dB to get the 2.83V equivalent sensitivity. The red line I drew in to [approximately] illustrate how I notch down the "excess" to then fine-tune for a near flat FR:

Click the image to open in full size.

I'll upload the actual in-room FR later tonight. But basically the above pic is what I did and to me it sounds quite good, minus the beaming for close listening distances. So it basically ends up being a 92-93ish dB sensitivity tweeter that can mate up to most high sensitivity 8in's or lower-sensitivity 10in's.
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Old 28th November 2018, 11:43 PM   #9
OscarS is offline OscarS  United States
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Almost forgot. Here is what I like to do. Tame down the peaks to get a nice flat FR curve. Blue is before, Red is after. Roughly 92 dB 2dB from 850hz-20kHz. Perfect to mate up to a high-sensitivity 8" or average sensitivity 10" midbass. Or however you want to do it.

Click the image to open in full size.

Alternatively one can correct by boosting to achieve flat FR, but it's easy to get too crazy like that, lol. I think it's "safer" to pull down and smother the peaks. In that example I used a standard 31-band GEQ so the notch pull-downs are medium-wide Q similar to what could be achieved with passive EQ components, using 3 or 4 bands only here. IIRC, I pulled down around 3k, 6k, and 12k, roughly.

Last edited by OscarS; 28th November 2018 at 11:46 PM.
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