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15" 2-way Ideas
15" 2-way Ideas
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Old 7th February 2018, 04:51 PM   #101
Charles Darwin is offline Charles Darwin  United Kingdom
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Depends on what you cross them over to.

If you use a bare dome tweeter the result will always be sub-optimal but once you add a waveguide or horn into the mix everything cleans up nicely albeit at the cost of some (cut) eq'ing.

Also I quite like 90deg dispersion at home which makes some choices for me.
Like the ideal crossover point since cones beam at 90deg when wavelength equals diameter.
All you need to do then is pick a mid that extents an octave beyond that cleanly and there is little left to go wrong with regards to driver choice.
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Old 7th February 2018, 06:55 PM   #102
BobtheBuilderMLG is offline BobtheBuilderMLG  United States
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Adason, Do you like big mids for there dynamics, or do they have better abilities to match with bigger woofers dispersion wise?

Iwas thinking around 6" midrange FP sells one that pretty inexpensive like 130$ or so and good sensitivity as well. I would think a 6" would help free up the selection of for the CD. Just a thought though still far from sure what I'll do in terms of going 3 or 2 way.

Even though I like the idea of a single point for the sound to radiate from I do know however Ill probably stay away from fullrange drivers, just not my thing.
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Old 7th February 2018, 08:21 PM   #103
KaffiMann is offline KaffiMann  Norway
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It does not matter what you end up choosing. It will be a form of compromise anyway.

Double 6.5" crossed over to a CD+horn allows maybe 1.8-2.6khz xo freq, the main advantage to this may be that the compression drivers and the horns are cheaper compared to the quality you're getting. Adason likes the Faital 6FE200, and I do like those too. Then you got something that can be comfortably crossed over at 100-200hz somewhere, To a nice double 12", maybe 15" or 18". But that is a 3way... A CD+horn combo that can be comfortable crossed over at 0.8-1.2khz to a single 15" is often a bit pricey, but well worth it.

But then you have to start learning a lot about filters, unless you go for a kit of some sort. Not to mention the cost of addittional components if you go passive and decide to start tweaking. As people here have mentioned previously, better to go the DSP route.
It can be as cheap as "free" if you got a computer with a decent soundcard, or get a reasonably priced minidsp, or freedsp or whatever for a standalone solution. Have to get some amps though, but that's ridiculously cheap now.

Have you really looked long and hard at the kits from diysoundgroup?
Something like the Elusive 1099, or maybe the Titan 615 seems like it could be something for you. All the difficult stuff is done, just assembly of cabinets and stuff left.

If you're really certain you want to plan, design and make something on your own, then spending more time and learning might be beneficial. Start browsing drivers and planning xo frequencies, look at charts, polar diagrams, analyze breakup modes. Maybe just get something cheap first to play around with to figure it all out, it does pay off in the long run, and can be a very rewarding experience. I know this is the multi way forum and all, but I went from a 4way setup to a 2way, not missing anything. Something like the Beyma 12BR70 in a 60liter sealed box together with for instance the Tang Band W5-1611 in a sealed-off compartment in the same box, really does go a long way, you can even go insane and do the 1st order passive xo route, which is frowned upon by many, but can sound really sweet when you get it right.

I found out after a lot of multi way iterations, to get the xo freq low enough, better/easier/cheaper to go with a FR/wideband+bass combo. But experiencing things by yourself will have a tremendous value no matter what you decide.

Edit:
Just want to mention that prejudice towards some solutions might come back to bite you at a later point in time. I know it's easy to stamp a whole pile of options as useless when just giving it a glance, but are you really certain it's not the "nothatisanunknownsolutiontomeiamscepticalofthings slightlyoutofmycomfortzone" monster talking?

Last edited by KaffiMann; 7th February 2018 at 08:33 PM.
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Old 7th February 2018, 08:38 PM   #104
globalplayer is offline globalplayer  Germany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaffiMann View Post
Have you really looked long and hard at the kits from diysoundgroup?
Something like the Elusive 1099, or maybe the Titan 615 seems like it could be something for you. All the difficult stuff is done, just assembly of cabinets and stuff left.
Port area is very (too) small on those designs.
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Old 7th February 2018, 09:01 PM   #105
KaffiMann is offline KaffiMann  Norway
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I agree, but it's a compromise. The designs are good in other areas, and many of them are intended to be crossed over higher to a sub. Something like the "magnum" is maybe slightly better, but all of these boxes are small, and require narrow ports to get a feeling of low end response. There used to be a Seos build with a 15" Selenium in a sealed cabinet, but it never gained traction, to me that seemed far superior to all the sub-optimal BR designs, but people are maybe looking at the wrong numbers. BR can be really good (like everything else also can also be really good), but it takes more time and effort than most are willing to invest.
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Old 7th February 2018, 09:04 PM   #106
globalplayer is offline globalplayer  Germany
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Originally Posted by KaffiMann View Post
BR can be really good (like everything else also can also be really good), but it takes more time and effort than most are willing to invest.
I agree.
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Old 7th February 2018, 09:15 PM   #107
Think is offline Think  Netherlands
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15" 2-way Ideas
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Originally Posted by gabdx View Post
Just one thing to think about before you go. 15 inches only if you need high sensitivity, like 95Db ,

Musical wise, 12, 10 inches sound better and get as low, however with 88-91 sensitivity.
...
+1 plus off axis response; you need to crossöver that 15" really low and need a really expensive tweeter to do the rest. Bad idea.
3 way; sub and 2 way 10/1 tops or just 15/6/1" tops are more favorable in almost all situations.

IMHO 2 way 15" + tweeters speakers only exits because of marketing and nescient people buying them because of the specs.
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Old 7th February 2018, 09:25 PM   #108
gofar99 is offline gofar99  United States
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Hi Recently refurbed a pair of Altec lansing enclosures. They are 2 way just over 7 cubic foot vented ones. I used the 15 inch Greap Plains Audio 416-8 (alnico version) with a Radian 475PB driver on a Seos 15 inch wave guide. Passive second order crossover at 1650HZ. Padded down on the Radian about 12 db. The combination is about 96 db/w sensitivity and really nice sounding. The GPA is an exceptional woofer wit very flat response from 30-3K. I actually measured it flat to 4500. The enclosures are a variation for home use based on the Voice of the Theater systems. Great sound, able to do bot high and low power well. Beware the GPAs are not cheap.
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Old 7th February 2018, 10:05 PM   #109
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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15" 2-way Ideas
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Old 8th February 2018, 02:21 PM   #110
IG81 is offline IG81  Canada
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BobtheBuilderMLG,

I see you picked the Faital 15FH530 woofer. It seems to have a good response both on and off-axis. Are you still considering a 2-way? If so, what kind of HF scheme do you want to go for, constant-directivity or a horn?

I think that in any case, ~1kHz might be just about the highest you want to cross that woofer at. I don't know if there are any commonly available ~15" constant-directivity waveguides that really can pull-off 1kHz. The SEOS-15 claims 900Hz. Googling its polar data, it seems like 1kHz would really be the lowest you want to go, perhaps it could work. Too bad the QSC and its clones are no longer available. I have a QSC and am using it down to 1250Hz.

If you want a horn, I'd suggest Tractrix, in which case you could and should IMO cross lower, perhaps 800Hz or so, in order not to have the woofer's pattern narrow too much before hitting the horn's wide pattern in its lower bandwidth.

I simulated the 15FH530 in WinISD. I like 73L @ 44Hz for a compact solution. f3 is ~50Hz and f10 is 35Hz. Room gain will prop up these figures. A larger and lower-reaching solution could be a 3dB bass shelft, which would be 165L @ 33Hz. The -3dB (f3) shelf would "hold" to ~36Hz and f10 would be ~26Hz, albeit with a steep slope and you'd lose some "punch" from 50Hz-200Hz compared to the previous QB3 solution. Of course, you can correct this almost any way you want with DSP, as long as you have the amplifier power to back it up. With its generous 9.25mm Xmax, this driver will play stupid loud in any configuration in a domestic setting. Even sealed would be an option, with f3~83Hz at Qtc~0.7 in a very compact 42L box. You could run a Linkwitz transform to have any f3/f10 you want, once again, if you have the amplifier power for it and can afford the reduction in max SPL.
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