I suppose you could try but the grill is round and the waveguide is elliptical so it wouldn't sit evenly on the walls. I would be tempted to find some steel wire and drill a couple little holes in the waveguide and insert the wire into them.
Here are two jigs for routing the elliptical recesses and cutouts for the 4" and 5" versions. I have tried a couple of times to do the top-bearing flush trim bit, and the bit is too erratic when trying to take out that much material. I've got two burned carbide bits as a result.
My currently preferred method is to use a 1.25" templet/guide bushing and my 0.25" spiral upcut machining bit that I use with my Jasper Jigs. Attach the jig to the baffle with double-sided tape (can be messy to clean up later), and then take 0.25" passes around until you have a through-hole. Then come back with a 0.5" rabbeting bit set to between 0.25" - 0.375" (6 - 9mm). The 3/8" depth allows for gasketing tape underneath the waveguide.
Making your own jig is fairly easy, just be sure that the jig is taller/deeper than your guide bushing.
My currently preferred method is to use a 1.25" templet/guide bushing and my 0.25" spiral upcut machining bit that I use with my Jasper Jigs. Attach the jig to the baffle with double-sided tape (can be messy to clean up later), and then take 0.25" passes around until you have a through-hole. Then come back with a 0.5" rabbeting bit set to between 0.25" - 0.375" (6 - 9mm). The 3/8" depth allows for gasketing tape underneath the waveguide.
Making your own jig is fairly easy, just be sure that the jig is taller/deeper than your guide bushing.
A pair of waveguides will push up that material cost, and so will the cabinets and crossovers. However, it is still less than $1k/speaker. And yeah, something like this is my current project. I'm not trying to clone the Revel, but the driver choice is a natural, as-is using the WG with it.
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Using the guide bushing to clean-up prior attempts with a top-bearing trim and dado bits. My only real complaint on the guide bushing approach is that the bushing only fits my fixed router base, so changing depth is a bit of a hassle, and there is not an elegant way to ease the bit into the wood.
Before the clean-up with the guide bushing, and the fit afterwards. Gasket tape brings the edge of the waveguide to be flush with the baffle face.
Before the clean-up with the guide bushing, and the fit afterwards. Gasket tape brings the edge of the waveguide to be flush with the baffle face.
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Hey guys,
I haven't read the whole thread yet but are doing it slowly.
I do have a question regarding the output in the top octave for the waveguided SB26ADC.
In the measurements of the WG+SB26 it seems like the spl level in the top octave is reduced against the SB26 without waveguide. Is this correct?
I am asking because I am looking for a WG + metal dome solution that fits my need of about 91dB to meet up with my midrange.
The DXT is too low in sensitivity and when checking for a suitable other metal dome i found the SB26ADC. But following the measurements in this thread, it seems it isn't possible for me to use it.
In the spec sheet it says 90dB, but following augerpros measurements it looks like the output is only around 85dB in the top octave with waveguide. The use of a waveguide for this driver makes it loose output in the top octave.
All other solutions of a dome + WG (DX/XT + WG etc) seems to not loose any significant output, only gaining in the lower octaves.
What is it that differs? And am I reading the measurements right, am i missing something?
I haven't read the whole thread yet but are doing it slowly.
I do have a question regarding the output in the top octave for the waveguided SB26ADC.
In the measurements of the WG+SB26 it seems like the spl level in the top octave is reduced against the SB26 without waveguide. Is this correct?
I am asking because I am looking for a WG + metal dome solution that fits my need of about 91dB to meet up with my midrange.
The DXT is too low in sensitivity and when checking for a suitable other metal dome i found the SB26ADC. But following the measurements in this thread, it seems it isn't possible for me to use it.
In the spec sheet it says 90dB, but following augerpros measurements it looks like the output is only around 85dB in the top octave with waveguide. The use of a waveguide for this driver makes it loose output in the top octave.
All other solutions of a dome + WG (DX/XT + WG etc) seems to not loose any significant output, only gaining in the lower octaves.
What is it that differs? And am I reading the measurements right, am i missing something?
Actually it is quite normal for the top octave to be less on axis vs the bare tweeter. Your SEAS example does this too if you compare it to the 27TBC/G it is based on. The upside is that there is more energy off axis in the top octave in waveguide, so power response is better than a bare tweeter. Now my results are within 1dB or so absolute, and I suspect a bit at the low end of the range, so it wouldn't bother me any to use this in a 91dB speaker. Ignoring whether a dB or two in the top octave is even relevant for most music and people, remember there is more energy in the top octave off axis. Again comparing the SEAS, at 30 degrees offaxis, the raw driver (27TBC/G) is down between 4-15 dB compared to on axis, while the DXT is only down 1-2.5dB! My waveguides behave similarly. So unless you have the speakers directly point at you, chances are you will have MORE energy at the seating position when using a waveguide.
Paul> it's just stuck on magnetically, so it is easy to stick something small in the mesh and lift it off. Having said that, with your condition I might try to get someone else to do it. The biggest danger is if it slips off your hook it will get pulled to the dome because the magnet is really strong. Could be a bad ending.
Andreas> looks fun! I need to pull out my Zaph ZA14s and make a mini-monitor with the SB21
Andreas> looks fun! I need to pull out my Zaph ZA14s and make a mini-monitor with the SB21
Thank you Brandon for your answer.
One of the goals for this intended design is flat on axis performance and a higher than normal sensitivity, so might not be for just this design.
I will have to go with the Wg300 + either SS XT or DX tweeter. Anybody have any thought when it comes to choosing between these two solutions? I've read some negative about the DX tweeter and I guess that also applies to the SS version. The XT on the other hand has higher distortion and less output in top octave off axis.
I do have another design in mind that your solution would fit well in thou.
A 8" 2,5 way floor stander with a low crossover point, targeting somewhere around 87-88dB sensitivity.
I have still not read the whole thread, so I might have missed something, are you possibly working on waveguides for any more tweeters than the ones posted on the somasonus site?
The thread is huge and will take me around a week more to finish in this speed.
Best regards, Mathias
One of the goals for this intended design is flat on axis performance and a higher than normal sensitivity, so might not be for just this design.
I will have to go with the Wg300 + either SS XT or DX tweeter. Anybody have any thought when it comes to choosing between these two solutions? I've read some negative about the DX tweeter and I guess that also applies to the SS version. The XT on the other hand has higher distortion and less output in top octave off axis.
I do have another design in mind that your solution would fit well in thou.
A 8" 2,5 way floor stander with a low crossover point, targeting somewhere around 87-88dB sensitivity.
I have still not read the whole thread, so I might have missed something, are you possibly working on waveguides for any more tweeters than the ones posted on the somasonus site?
The thread is huge and will take me around a week more to finish in this speed.
Best regards, Mathias
Mathias> how low are you crossing? What is the mid? The SB21SDC has high sensitivity and fairly low extension. I'll be testing a 6.5" and 8" waveguide for it next week (and its dimple dome cousin). Also testing designs for the ScanSpeak Revelator D2104/7120-00 which should meet your requirements. If you can wait, once I'm done with the D2104/7120 I'll be getting the big and sensitive D2904/7000 ring radiator and start developing waveguides for that. The Bliesma T25B is sensitive, as is the A version, though I haven't tested that and I've heard the dome geometry may be slightly different between the Al and Be versions.
Finally got around to taking FR measurements of my project which is using the SB26ADC in the 5" waveguide paired with a Peerless HDS "Exclusive" 5" mid and 8" Peerless HDS "Exclusive" woofer. Mid-to-Tweeter crossover is 2nd order Linkwitz-Riley at 2khz. Figured I'd share results, hopefully it doesn't come across as off-topic.
Transition from mid-to-tweeter looks pretty good to me, with the mid and tweeter dropping off fairly in sync off-axis. I'm a bit green with critiquing off-axis response so I'm eager to see what others think of the mid-to-tweeter integration? I'm still sorting out the hump around 1khz. A similar hump showed up in the nearfield measurements of the tweeter by itself, so I' not sure if it's measurement setup, room reflections, or something else.
Transition from mid-to-tweeter looks pretty good to me, with the mid and tweeter dropping off fairly in sync off-axis. I'm a bit green with critiquing off-axis response so I'm eager to see what others think of the mid-to-tweeter integration? I'm still sorting out the hump around 1khz. A similar hump showed up in the nearfield measurements of the tweeter by itself, so I' not sure if it's measurement setup, room reflections, or something else.
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I have a pair of those, great tweeter. I played with designing something in F360 but I was really struggling with finding the right functions to that. I'll revisit it at some point, but not anytime soon.
Brandon,
The intended mid for this project is a driver called Px17LTS which is loosely based on Seas P17RCY but with slightly better behaviour in frequency response and large signal behaviour. A pair of these are hard to find so back up plan is a pair of P17RCY. I like the good behaviour off and on axis and it should allow for quite simple crossovers which is a goal of mine in all builds. I've heard that these driver can produce afantastic mid reproduction and I always choose drivers that behave nicely without as much break up as is possible. Hence PP cones are something i like.
Crossover becomes what it becomes, but I am aiming at somewhere between 2-3khz with good even off axis behaviour in ~ +-30 horizontal and ~-+10 vertical area as another goal.
The other designs is a design based on HDS Nomex 6,5" and 8" +WG/Tweet and also a 2,5way with Nomex 8".
Might also do a Nomex 8"/P17WJ+WG/Tweet setup.
I feel that the more setups i try, the more I learn.
That's what is planned, might change in the near future, again
For these lower sensitivity designs a ~ 89db@2,83v sensitivity should suffice well, then there would be possible to get an even frequency response. Thou, i am not completely against a reduction of some db in top octave as long as it sounds correct.
I am in this for the learning process and for the feel of satisfaction when creating something that really sounds good.
What i really would like, if I could wish for it, i a solution with hard dome and ~90dB sensitivity. That would slut almost every possible hifi speaker. Especially with some small reduction in top octave. Preferably to a small price too
I feel that the revelators might be a bit pricey when I compare against what other possible speakers i could build for the same money
Up till now I have been playing with some smaller 2 ways and built a pair of Elsinores. Althou this, all my store bought speakers have used waveguides in some form, quite funny as i didn't have the knowledge i have now when I bought them.
Have you tried the DX/XT + Wg300 or WG148? If so, what's your opinion? Anybody else tried them and what is you opinion? Which sounds best?
That became a bit longer than I intended it to be, sorry.
The intended mid for this project is a driver called Px17LTS which is loosely based on Seas P17RCY but with slightly better behaviour in frequency response and large signal behaviour. A pair of these are hard to find so back up plan is a pair of P17RCY. I like the good behaviour off and on axis and it should allow for quite simple crossovers which is a goal of mine in all builds. I've heard that these driver can produce afantastic mid reproduction and I always choose drivers that behave nicely without as much break up as is possible. Hence PP cones are something i like.
Crossover becomes what it becomes, but I am aiming at somewhere between 2-3khz with good even off axis behaviour in ~ +-30 horizontal and ~-+10 vertical area as another goal.
The other designs is a design based on HDS Nomex 6,5" and 8" +WG/Tweet and also a 2,5way with Nomex 8".
Might also do a Nomex 8"/P17WJ+WG/Tweet setup.
I feel that the more setups i try, the more I learn.
That's what is planned, might change in the near future, again
For these lower sensitivity designs a ~ 89db@2,83v sensitivity should suffice well, then there would be possible to get an even frequency response. Thou, i am not completely against a reduction of some db in top octave as long as it sounds correct.
I am in this for the learning process and for the feel of satisfaction when creating something that really sounds good.
What i really would like, if I could wish for it, i a solution with hard dome and ~90dB sensitivity. That would slut almost every possible hifi speaker. Especially with some small reduction in top octave. Preferably to a small price too
I feel that the revelators might be a bit pricey when I compare against what other possible speakers i could build for the same money
Up till now I have been playing with some smaller 2 ways and built a pair of Elsinores. Althou this, all my store bought speakers have used waveguides in some form, quite funny as i didn't have the knowledge i have now when I bought them.
Have you tried the DX/XT + Wg300 or WG148? If so, what's your opinion? Anybody else tried them and what is you opinion? Which sounds best?
That became a bit longer than I intended it to be, sorry.