Hi guys!
I'm seeking DIY SPEAKER (KIT) recommendations.
I've been lurking for years and finally have the time for a speaker project of my own.
Due to my very basic cabinetry skills - and because of my strong preference for the sound of SEALED ENCLOSURE speakers - I'd like to build a very simply 2 or 3 way / sealed speaker.
Wish-list includes: -
Size and proportion-wise, I have a very audio-involved wife who to her great credit does not inflict size restrictions on me. So I don't mind a slightly bigger enclosure like that of an AUDIO NOTE AN-E, etc. Hopefully my speaker will end up looking something like the 8008 CORNER model or a DEVORE ORANGUTAN as shown in the photos below.
(But without the port.)
Budget-wise, I can run to a few thousand or more if need be.
Having had success with building kitset tube amps - (TRANSCENDENT SOUND) - ideally, I'd like to be able to buy all the driver and crossover parts (and perhaps a precut baffle - but not essential...) as part of a pre-proven formula and simply build the basic cabinet to spec and assemble and finish.
The problem for me is that almost every design I find is ported to provide deeper bass. For me, I far prefer less bass with the punchy tuneful sound of a fully sealed enclosure.
To meet my needs, I'm hoping you guys recommend something that is close to a never-fail recipe?
(Really appreciated...)
-Tony (SONDEKNZ)
Auckland, New Zealand.
I'm seeking DIY SPEAKER (KIT) recommendations.
I've been lurking for years and finally have the time for a speaker project of my own.
Due to my very basic cabinetry skills - and because of my strong preference for the sound of SEALED ENCLOSURE speakers - I'd like to build a very simply 2 or 3 way / sealed speaker.
Wish-list includes: -
- Sealed enclosure (Non-negotiable)
- Really extended tops (30kHz or better, if possible)
- Tuneful base down to 50Hz or better (Not a big bass fan)
- 90dB or better sensitivity (Preferably 93dB)
- Prefer 8-ohm impedance (But 4-ohms would do)
Size and proportion-wise, I have a very audio-involved wife who to her great credit does not inflict size restrictions on me. So I don't mind a slightly bigger enclosure like that of an AUDIO NOTE AN-E, etc. Hopefully my speaker will end up looking something like the 8008 CORNER model or a DEVORE ORANGUTAN as shown in the photos below.
(But without the port.)
Budget-wise, I can run to a few thousand or more if need be.
Having had success with building kitset tube amps - (TRANSCENDENT SOUND) - ideally, I'd like to be able to buy all the driver and crossover parts (and perhaps a precut baffle - but not essential...) as part of a pre-proven formula and simply build the basic cabinet to spec and assemble and finish.
The problem for me is that almost every design I find is ported to provide deeper bass. For me, I far prefer less bass with the punchy tuneful sound of a fully sealed enclosure.
To meet my needs, I'm hoping you guys recommend something that is close to a never-fail recipe?
(Really appreciated...)
-Tony (SONDEKNZ)
Auckland, New Zealand.
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Greetings fellow kiwi.
Feast on some of Troel's projects. I've never built one is the caveat:
DIY-Loudspeakers
If the woofers lend themselves to either ported or sealed enclosures (Driver FS / Qes = ideally < 50 or < 100) then you could run them sealed. Using WinISD or various spreadsheets, you can compare group delay and F3 / tuning impact.
Zaph|Audio has 1 or 2 as well.
Curt Campbell seems to have a following on another forum - some collaborations / projects here:
Speaker Design Works.
Some other completed designs - many larger systems here:
HTGuide Forum!
I'm in the middle of doing a 3 way myself (my own design) - so I wouldn't recommend it
Feast on some of Troel's projects. I've never built one is the caveat:
DIY-Loudspeakers
If the woofers lend themselves to either ported or sealed enclosures (Driver FS / Qes = ideally < 50 or < 100) then you could run them sealed. Using WinISD or various spreadsheets, you can compare group delay and F3 / tuning impact.
Zaph|Audio has 1 or 2 as well.
Curt Campbell seems to have a following on another forum - some collaborations / projects here:
Speaker Design Works.
Some other completed designs - many larger systems here:
HTGuide Forum!
I'm in the middle of doing a 3 way myself (my own design) - so I wouldn't recommend it
You could build this Seas A26 kit but rather than Aperiodic, you could build It sealed.
According to my sims a sealed box of about 32ltrs should give a similar low frequency response to the aperiodic version (It's hard to say exactly without measurements). A 28ltr sealed box will have a box q (qtc) of around 1 and will have a bit more thump than the larger box.
According to my sims a sealed box of about 32ltrs should give a similar low frequency response to the aperiodic version (It's hard to say exactly without measurements). A 28ltr sealed box will have a box q (qtc) of around 1 and will have a bit more thump than the larger box.
Dave and Fatmarley
Many thanks for these great thoughts.
(I really appreciate the links too Dave...)
I have drooled over Troels projects forever, but he almost never uses a sealed cabinet approach.
Question: Both of you suggest that I pick a good ported speaker design and simply seal the cabinet - and still expect great sonic results. Surely this puts the entire speaker design at risk?
With this in mind, I have actually tried sealing the port with some of my own (professionally manufactured) ported speakers and the result has typically delivered a very poor outcome.
I suspect - and VERY happy to be wrong about this - that certain tweeters, drivers and speaker designs are specifically engineered with either ported or sealed cabinets in mind; not both.
Thoughts?
Many thanks for these great thoughts.
(I really appreciate the links too Dave...)
I have drooled over Troels projects forever, but he almost never uses a sealed cabinet approach.
Question: Both of you suggest that I pick a good ported speaker design and simply seal the cabinet - and still expect great sonic results. Surely this puts the entire speaker design at risk?
With this in mind, I have actually tried sealing the port with some of my own (professionally manufactured) ported speakers and the result has typically delivered a very poor outcome.
I suspect - and VERY happy to be wrong about this - that certain tweeters, drivers and speaker designs are specifically engineered with either ported or sealed cabinets in mind; not both.
Thoughts?
Hi Tony, this kit would serve your needs very well and I'd personally choose it for myself if I had a need for one. A very good value for the money.
Zaph|Audio SB12.3 ~ SB Acoustics 12", Dual Midrange, 3-Way
Zaph|Audio SB12.3 ~ SB Acoustics 12", Dual Midrange, 3-Way
Hi Tony,
I am prepared to make a complete speaker design for you on paper. I use Leap for my designs and I have a lot of experience with it. You can choose for a passive or active system. I will do it for free, it is always interesting to see a practical realization of something which is designed on paper. Of course, you can choose for an existing design or a kit, that already has been built. But with a new design, you can completely make it like you want...but with more risk. With an existing design, you also have the driver parameter tolerances, that maybe need to be compensated in the filter to realize an optimal result. With the Leap simulation, I have very good results w.r.t. SPL accuracy, but the drivers need to be measured, either on IEC baffle or in the enclosure. Think about it. Maybe you can find some useful information on my website www.vcllabs.com.
Paul
I am prepared to make a complete speaker design for you on paper. I use Leap for my designs and I have a lot of experience with it. You can choose for a passive or active system. I will do it for free, it is always interesting to see a practical realization of something which is designed on paper. Of course, you can choose for an existing design or a kit, that already has been built. But with a new design, you can completely make it like you want...but with more risk. With an existing design, you also have the driver parameter tolerances, that maybe need to be compensated in the filter to realize an optimal result. With the Leap simulation, I have very good results w.r.t. SPL accuracy, but the drivers need to be measured, either on IEC baffle or in the enclosure. Think about it. Maybe you can find some useful information on my website www.vcllabs.com.
Paul
You can make an excellent sealed speaker with woofers with Qt of .4-.6
Outside of that, you can still do it but you will find it much more sensitive to placement. High Q will want to boom. and very low Q will have little bass, best used with a sub.
It will not affect your crossover as any bumps or dropoffs are below your low(non sub) cross point, just keep baffle width and driver placements from top the same as the ported version. Get any extra volume you need going down and/or back.
mh-audio.nl has graphing on its sealed calculator that will let you see what different sealed alignments look like at the bottom(w/o room or baffle effects, keep them in mind).
Outside of that, you can still do it but you will find it much more sensitive to placement. High Q will want to boom. and very low Q will have little bass, best used with a sub.
It will not affect your crossover as any bumps or dropoffs are below your low(non sub) cross point, just keep baffle width and driver placements from top the same as the ported version. Get any extra volume you need going down and/or back.
mh-audio.nl has graphing on its sealed calculator that will let you see what different sealed alignments look like at the bottom(w/o room or baffle effects, keep them in mind).
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I completely agree, sealed box Qtc = 0.5 – 0.6, and a low system resonance frequency fc ( = large driver and large cabinet), I have the best experience with it. To play louder I prefer the woofer in a ported system, because of the reduced excursion. Then a 4-way system with a woofer in a ported enclosure and the midwoofer in a closed box, crossing at about 120Hz, becomes interesting. The crossing frequency with the midwoofer cannot be chosen too low, otherwise the excursion limit of the midwoofer becomes an issue while playing loud. I don’t like the ported system up to a few hundred Hz, because of the lack of enclosure filling at low medium frequencies.
Wow! You guys have surely done me proud.
Many thanks for all these thoughts. Much to consider.
Special thanks to you - Paul Vancluysen - for your very kind offer to work with me on a brand-new plan.
The truth is that many of you are speaking a language that is beyond my current understanding, hence my preference to run with a proven recipe.
I can also see that there is - as always - a strong preference for a ported design, but this is not for me.
I will wade through all of this detail and the many options and give it all a think.
Once again, many thanks for your kind and generous suggestions. What a great global community. So very impressive.
Sincere thanks.
-Tony (SONDEKNZ)
Auckland, New Zealand.
Many thanks for all these thoughts. Much to consider.
Special thanks to you - Paul Vancluysen - for your very kind offer to work with me on a brand-new plan.
The truth is that many of you are speaking a language that is beyond my current understanding, hence my preference to run with a proven recipe.
I can also see that there is - as always - a strong preference for a ported design, but this is not for me.
I will wade through all of this detail and the many options and give it all a think.
Once again, many thanks for your kind and generous suggestions. What a great global community. So very impressive.
Sincere thanks.
-Tony (SONDEKNZ)
Auckland, New Zealand.
For a ported system, the cone excursion as a function of frequency has a notch at the tuning frequency fb. This is typical for of a ported system. Below the tuning frequency the excursion becomes higher again and is even larger at very low frequencies than the excursion of the same driver in a closed box system. But in the frequency region of interest for music, the excursion of a basreflex system is lower than a closed box system with the same driver. I a way you can play louder with the basreflex.
In the Tarkus the Peerless 830668 is used.
For this driver Fs = 32Hz, Qts = 0.55 and Vas = 73L.
Placing it in a cabinet of 70L, the system frequency fc = 55Hz and Qtc = 0.77. With one such woofer the overall sensitivity will become 82dB. With two of them in parallel it will be 88dB.
In my opinion Qtc = 0.77 is rather high, 0.5 to 0.6 would be better, at least Qtc should be equal or less than 0.7. fc = 55Hz is also rather high. The -3dB frequency F3 will be about 55Hz in such system.
Better is to use a driver with a lower Qts and a lower fs.
Maybe the 11 inch Eton 11-212?
Placed in a 60L cabinet fc = 39Hz and Qtc = 0.56. F3 becomes a little higher than 40Hz and the overall sensitivity will become 85dB with one such driver and 91dB with two drivers in parallel.
The above numbers are first estimations, not computed accurately, only to have a first idea.
As an example, 2x Eton 11-212 in a 120L cabinet, combined with the Accuton C173-6-096E midrange and the SB Satori TW29BN Be tweeter, a system 40 – 40000Hz with a sensitivity of 91dB can be realized.
It is just an idea, there are so many good alternatives.
The cabinet for the TARKUS project would be beyond my capability.
For ease of fabrication, I'd much prefer to make a mostly classic rectangular box speaker - similar in proportion to the AUDIO NOTE / DEVORE . 8008-CORNER models, the images for which I included in the my post.
(I far prefer their look also...)
Regarding availability, here in New Zealand we fully expect to import almost everything. It is the norm. No problem.
For ease of fabrication, I'd much prefer to make a mostly classic rectangular box speaker - similar in proportion to the AUDIO NOTE / DEVORE . 8008-CORNER models, the images for which I included in the my post.
(I far prefer their look also...)
Regarding availability, here in New Zealand we fully expect to import almost everything. It is the norm. No problem.
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