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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

DIY speakers for Audio(phile) Cafe Bar...Need help and support!
DIY speakers for Audio(phile) Cafe Bar...Need help and support!
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Old 11th January 2018, 07:14 AM   #41
chris661 is offline chris661  United Kingdom
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Originally Posted by Pano View Post
LOL! I understand the hurt. A friend of mine recently worked in a club like that in London. They had these horns (but red). He said they really hurt!
Likely Void. They do some interesting things, but often very un-sensible when it comes to things like diffraction, and driver spacing.

Chris
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Old 11th January 2018, 05:45 PM   #42
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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DIY speakers for Audio(phile) Cafe Bar...Need help and support!
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Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
...Magnapans hanging upside down from the ceiling in th elate 70s.
Oh. How did that work out?
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Old 11th January 2018, 06:03 PM   #43
zmyrna is offline zmyrna  United Kingdom
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Originally Posted by Pano View Post
If you want something that sounds amazing and looks really cool, it's hard to beat the big Western Electric horns as the centerpiece. I've done that on a temporary basis, and it became legendary in Paris. You do need a fairly large space, tho maybe not as large as that place in Korea.

The great thing about the big W.E. horns (or similar) is the size and scale of the sound. They sound life size, and don't have to be loud to do so. Bass can be easy or difficult, it's up to you - and the space.

Details if you want them.
Details? Yes, please.

WE horns definitely provide drama.

Is there any modern production horn that can get close to WEs at least sonically?
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Old 11th January 2018, 06:15 PM   #44
zmyrna is offline zmyrna  United Kingdom
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Originally Posted by billshurv View Post
I guess you mean something like this SPIRITLAND – come home to music

Spiritland offers "unique new music space" at London's Merchants Tavern | What Hi-Fi? the original setup had Tannoys which looked rather good.
Yes, there are two audio cafe/bars in London.

Spiritland now have custom Living Voice speakers. They chose throwing money at high end.

Brilliant Corner has 4x Klipsch corner horns.
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Old 11th January 2018, 06:22 PM   #45
zmyrna is offline zmyrna  United Kingdom
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Originally Posted by chris661 View Post
Likely Void. They do some interesting things, but often very un-sensible when it comes to things like diffraction, and driver spacing.

Chris

red triangular diffraction horns
what were they thinking?
my ears hurt just by looking at them...
we do not want hurt; we want soothe
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Last edited by zmyrna; 11th January 2018 at 06:25 PM.
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Old 11th January 2018, 06:51 PM   #46
zmyrna is offline zmyrna  United Kingdom
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Originally Posted by ErnieM View Post
From a sonic perspective, they should have very wide horizontal dispersion with narrow vertical. Multiple subs placed throughout the room.

This kind of narrows it down to line arrays/symmetrical wmtmw/ or horns. Perhaps two floor to ceiling subs for dramatic effect with smaller subs spread about. A line array can also have the effect of making sounds larger than life or very detailed which can also add to the excitement of the system.

Good luck on your project!
I think of a combination of dipole and horns for dispersion control down to at least 200hz and preferably to 100hz.

Then potentially dual 18" cardioid per side down to 30-40hz.

And if needed a vibration cancelling (PPSL etc.) dual driver subwoofer below 30-40hz (could be BR, TL or tapped horn)

Multi subs may take too much commercial space (less profits )
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Old 11th January 2018, 07:10 PM   #47
chrisb is offline chrisb
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Originally Posted by zmyrna View Post
I am talking DIY and substantially more ambitious than the Westminsters (SPL, bass extension, WOW factor etc.)

And a more modern, industrial, minimalist look please

OK, but gave you actually heard a pair of the Westminsters, or checked the enclosure drawings? But if they're not butch / steampunk enough, that's understandable.

Oswald Mills has some interesting concepts to emulate Oswalds Mill Audio Product Gallery | OMA

only one of dozens


Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 11th January 2018, 07:13 PM   #48
manninen is offline manninen  Finland
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Originally Posted by zmyrna View Post
red triangular diffraction horns
what were they thinking?
edm vol knob on 11 and lots of substances taken
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Old 11th January 2018, 07:18 PM   #49
Cask05 is offline Cask05  United States
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Originally Posted by zmyrna View Post
I WANT THE SPEAKERS (and the music) TO BE THE CENTRE OF THE SHOW...(in business speak, this will be the unique selling point)...Japanese HiFi cafes are of course the inspiration here.

Please consider two scenarios:

1. a relatively large venue with perhaps something like old Western Electric or Altec theater style speakers (big horns, maybe some open baffle goodness)

2. small/medium venue with perhaps JBL or Westlake main studio monitor style speakers (ie speakers that can be placed near or on walls to save space)
Have you considered that one requirement is as wide a sweet spot as possible? In my experience, this will drive you toward controlled directivity designs with ~90 degrees coverage horizontally. If you get narrower horizontal coverage, then you'll get a point source effect, but then the sweet spot shrinks in width rather dramatically to cover only a small portion of the audience. Most "audiophile" loudspeakers abandon this capability (wide controlled directivity), while all cinema loudspeakers must have this capability in order to cover the audience equally.

One of the reasons why I like the big full-range multiple entry horns for hi-fi playback is that you can walk from side wall to side wall across the listening room, and forward until you're even with the (toed in) corner-located loudspeakers and get equal imaging with no changes in imaging or timbre, etc.--which also gives you maximum seating space for a commercial establishment. The stereo image will be there for every seat.

If you add one more bridged center loudspeaker of the same type, then you've locked in the center of the stereo image and eliminated the "fundamental flaw of stereo", i.e., the 1.8-2.2 kHz perceived hole in response--for everyone in the room, regardless of their seating location.

I'd actually recommend something based on the basic design of the biggest full-range Danley Synergy (SH-96) such as this, which has a 90 x 60 pattern. But you don't need 11 drivers to do the job:

Click the image to open in full size.

A custom-designed synergy horn with two to four 15" woofers and 2" apex-located compression driver (a separate midrange isn't required but could be added) would cover the audience seating, give you unsurpassed wide-field imaging--unlike the older WE horns and older corner horn designs, and also serve as conversation pieces.

Bill Waslo's Synergy Calc spreadsheet suffices for the basic dual-flare horn design. You could use as exotic or non-exotic a veneer or finish as you think you need. These would knock the socks off the audiophile community and also retain the ability to function in a dance/party environment without added distortion (i.e., very soft or very loud all sound extremely good).

YMMV.
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Old 11th January 2018, 07:24 PM   #50
manninen is offline manninen  Finland
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mono cafe, just one danley pole playing music
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