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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Matching amplifier to loudspeaker question(s)
Matching amplifier to loudspeaker question(s)
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Old 2nd January 2018, 05:42 PM   #51
montana1 is offline montana1  United States
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Thanks Erik,
I will give the link you posted a read. Lots of great information to look over.

Best,
Rich
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Old 2nd January 2018, 09:50 PM   #52
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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@ICG,
Just trying to help others in the thread, so a 'good idea' doesn't become mandatory, as happens alot in with DIY speakers. It stifles creativity and invention IMO.

(BTW, I have a nice collection of lighting ballasts and transformers that I paid nothing for )
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Old 3rd January 2018, 07:31 PM   #53
ICG is offline ICG  Germany
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Originally Posted by AllenB View Post
@ICG,
Just trying to help others in the thread, so a 'good idea' doesn't become mandatory, as happens alot in with DIY speakers. It stifles creativity and invention IMO.
Well, I'm not sure how it will be of any help if you do as if it doesn't exist. The usual speakers do not have 'fixed impedance'. So the issue actually applies in practically every case, it's just the question if it's neglectable (in most cases) or not. Ignoring the existence of such facts isn't exactly 'creative'. Creative is to find ways to make amps (and speakers) work despite non-ideal circumstances. If you ignore that, you'll sooner or later end up with mismatched pairings of amp and speakers, so please don't get upset if I mention existing possible issues. Remember, we are talking here in a thread where exactly that is discussed, about mismatching or matching amps and speakers. Again, claiming the problem does not exist may probably apply for your amp and speakers but that's not universally a rule.

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(BTW, I have a nice collection of lighting ballasts and transformers that I paid nothing for )
Well, nice for you. Thank you for contributing to the topic.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 07:39 PM   #54
planet10 is offline planet10  Canada
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Matching amplifier to loudspeaker question(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICG View Post
The usual speakers do not have 'fixed impedance'.
This is a diy forum. Many speakers are not usual. If passive XOs are used, care can be taken to minimize impedanxe variations. Joe Rasmussen’s latest revs of the elsinore are an example. FRs often prefer amps with high output impedance. If one is multiampling the higher frequency drivers rarely have non-flat impedance.

So while you argument might play in the commercail world of hifi it carries much less weight here.

dave
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Old 4th January 2018, 05:29 AM   #55
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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It is my understanding of the bigger picture. The apparent mandate of any amplifier output impedance is a fallacy specific to speaker building. Just as the automotive industry refers to condensors which we stopped doing almost a century ago, it propagates without review. It suits the commercial sector (and many DIYers) because it is a convenience. I feel I'm arguing semantics, but if it passes the same current it's part of the same circuit.

Last edited by AllenB; 4th January 2018 at 05:34 AM.
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Old 4th January 2018, 08:53 AM   #56
ICG is offline ICG  Germany
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Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
This is a diy forum. Many speakers are not usual. If passive XOs are used, care can be taken to minimize impedanxe variations. Joe Rasmussen’s latest revs of the elsinore are an example. FRs often prefer amps with high output impedance. If one is multiampling the higher frequency drivers rarely have non-flat impedance.

So while you argument might play in the commercail world of hifi it carries much less weight here.
That is so not true. None of it. A lot of DIYers build speakers on a budget, to compensate the impedance at the bass peak(s) costs often close the complete drivers itself. And FRs don't 'prefer' high output impedance amps. If they do, you failed to develop them amplifier uncritical. Your claim about the flat impedance tweeters on multiamping only applies to coil-less drivers or already compensated ones.
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Old 4th January 2018, 09:24 AM   #57
globalplayer is offline globalplayer  Germany
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That is so not true. None of it. [...]
While I agree with your post in principle...
"This is a diy forum." still holds some truth even if it makes not much sense to explicitely mention it.
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Old 4th January 2018, 04:04 PM   #58
head_unit is offline head_unit  United States
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To kind of follow up on Dave's statements, head unit, while you are describing a beefy SS amp, you should keep an open mind. Some of the best amps/music I ever heard were from amps which were noisy and had high output impedance by comparison. Seductive liars if you will.
Sure, which is why I said "What is definitely true is you can find a lot of amps whose adherents LOVE their sound, but the amps "measure bad." I had a couple of tube amps I liked, one of which I loaned to a friend who freaked out because it "was talking to him" in the night (tube resonance I presume, ha ha, it was pretty funny)

...it is very much like vinyl versus digital*: vinyl features many known problems and distortions, but some prefer it's sound. Same for DSD/SACD: multibit can be shown to measure better, but some prefer SACD. Are the preferences due to euphonious distortions? Psychological self-hallucination? Aspects of the sound we have not discovered yet? Unknown.

[And tough to say in the case of media, since to get true comparisons is almost impossible. For example, what sessions have been recorded simultaneously in both DSD and multibit? Or direct to digital and direct to vinyl at the same time? I believe there are a few titles like that, but most all multi-format titles are NOT, and therefore not really valid comparisons of the technology)]

I suspect some tube amps may have less or less unpleasant transient distortions, and clip more gracefully, but I don't recall any research into this. Meanwhile Nelson Pass says he can duplicate a tube sound in transistors using more modern transistor devices and IIRC less or was it zero negative global feedback. Of course, tube amps also have output transformers, which add in another layer of dynamic behavior.


*and here we have to specify well-recorded digital, not the "let's dump the LP-eq'd master onto a CD" or the "let's remaster this and compress it to neutron star density" etc
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Old 4th January 2018, 06:24 PM   #59
planet10 is offline planet10  Canada
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Matching amplifier to loudspeaker question(s)
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And FRs don't 'prefer' high output impedance amps.
I beg to differ. Our electronics wiz built a couple variable TransAmps (transimpedance amp with output impedance from near zero to near infinity). Each different FR speaker we tried worked best with a different setting on the amplifier.

Anecdotal evidence that a person’s FR speaker sounds poor until they hook up a higher impedance amp (tube or SS).

diy allows us to play with designs that can take advantage of the lower distortion possible with amplifiers that don’t have output impedance approaching zero.

dave
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