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How to Make a New Wave Biradial Horn
How to Make a New Wave Biradial Horn
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Old 6th December 2017, 06:57 PM   #51
Chris Koerbel is offline Chris Koerbel  Germany
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Default Cool thread

What Could Be a „modern“ Alternative to a 2425/26 on a 2344A?

Any Suggestion?
Any experience?

(Tad 2001 is wayyyyyy over Budget, no Alternative)

Chris
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Old 6th December 2017, 07:44 PM   #52
EarlK is offline EarlK  Canada
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How to Make a New Wave Biradial Horn



Click the image to open in full size.

PH-230 from Bluearan

Click the image to open in full size.


Last edited by EarlK; 6th December 2017 at 07:49 PM.
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Old 6th December 2017, 08:13 PM   #53
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Decades of research have shown that sharp edges on horns create diffraction and should be avoided. This means no diffraction slot, or sharp edge terminations. The sonic effects of doing this are quite impressive. There is a lot of information on this topic here at DIY. See "Geddes on Waveguides" for example.
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Old 7th December 2017, 07:45 AM   #54
Chris Koerbel is offline Chris Koerbel  Germany
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Sorry for misleading you and thanks for your answer.

The question was more in regards of replacing the 2425/26H with something more "actual" on a given 2344A horn.

Anybody ever tried out BMS 4550?

Answers are appreciated from this perspective, again

Chris
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Old 7th December 2017, 12:08 PM   #55
marco_gea is offline marco_gea  Italy
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There is no point in doing so. The 2344A horn is the weak link, not the 2425/26 driver.

Marco
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Old 7th December 2017, 01:35 PM   #56
EarlK is offline EarlK  Canada
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As Marco said, it's the 2344 that's the problem ( as far as having linear response goes ) / though the ( BMS ) 4550 does fare better in its mid-band response ( as far as diffractive suck-outs go ).

Here's an ancient trace ( from Zilch ) that shows what a challenge the 4550/2344 combo would be ( to design for ) .

Of course, one can actively EQ almost anything flat / but creating a workable passive network to fix what's seen in the red trace below would test the best network designer.

How to Make a New Wave Biradial Horn-zilch_bms-455x_on_2344-jpg

The following Celestion driver doesn't fare much better ( IMO ).

How to Make a New Wave Biradial Horn-cdx1747_on_2344_fr-png

Mind-you, I suppose those ( above ) are still better ( 1-5K wise ) than the raw response of this 2425 on the 2344.

How to Make a New Wave Biradial Horn-response2426on2344_d16r2421_d8r2425-jpeg

With the compensation filter in place, response will eventually look like this;

How to Make a New Wave Biradial Horn-2425-2344_widget_3135_-jpg

The above trace ( intriguing to me at least ) is flat enough to support the love-in going on ( over at AudioKarma ) over the 4435 speaker.
Some new 4435 devotees are really driving quite a renaissance over its capabilities.

The TAD 2001 is not immune to the negative effects ( on FR ) of this horns builtin diffraction problems.

How to Make a New Wave Biradial Horn-tad-vs-jbl_response-jpg

Attached Images
File Type: jpg Zilch_BMS 455x_on_2344.jpg (58.4 KB, 329 views)
File Type: png CDX1747_on_2344_FR.png (28.4 KB, 327 views)
File Type: jpeg Response2426on2344_D16R2421_D8R2425.jpeg (55.5 KB, 327 views)
File Type: jpg 2425 on 2344_Widget_3135_.jpg (63.9 KB, 329 views)
File Type: jpg TAD-vs-JBL_Response.jpg (154.9 KB, 327 views)
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Old 7th December 2017, 02:06 PM   #57
Chris Koerbel is offline Chris Koerbel  Germany
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wow, Earl - impressive investigation

Thanks for the moment, I need to study more deeply

Chris

PS: so bottom line: you would recommend to use a different horn and a different driver... 4435/30 is not a great speaker respectively can be done better?
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Old 7th December 2017, 02:42 PM   #58
phase_accurate is offline phase_accurate
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I would say it differently: They are still great speakers but we have better possibilities nowadays.

Regards

Charles
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Old 7th December 2017, 02:52 PM   #59
EarlK is offline EarlK  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Koerbel View Post
wow, Earl - impressive investigation

Thanks for the moment, I need to study more deeply

Chris

PS: so bottom line: you would recommend to use a different horn and a different driver... 4435/30 is not a great speaker respectively can be done better?
This is a good waveguide ( previously mentioned by Patrick ) .

How to Make a New Wave Biradial Horn-qsc_152i_15nngyr-png

PRV made a clone for a while.

Both ( the QSC 152i & the PRV clone ) are NLA unfortunately .

I'd seriously consider this w-guide driven by a JBL 2425/6/7h.

Response seen below ( 1/2 meter testing distance ).

How to Make a New Wave Biradial Horn-jbl-2427h-prv152i-clone-png

This is a well behaved ( raw ) response and is easily compensated for ( within a passive crossover ).

Unfortunately, these wave guides are no longer sold .

Maybe Patricks version will work out for you.

Click the image to open in full size.




PS; the SEOS 18 would be worth a look at ( they are available over there in Europe ).
Attached Images
File Type: png QSC_152i_15nNGYR.png (705.5 KB, 328 views)
File Type: png JBL 2427h on PRV152i clone.png (41.5 KB, 326 views)

Last edited by EarlK; 7th December 2017 at 03:18 PM.
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Old 7th December 2017, 03:52 PM   #60
phase_accurate is offline phase_accurate
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The PT waveguides seem to perform nicely as well:

JBL D2430K mounting issues

So does the Eighteensound XT1086 (although it won'z go down to 1 kHz):

2-Way DiY Hifi speakers eighteensound

Regards

Charles
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