Active 3-way with RS225
EDIT: Project changed, see post #14
I've been thinking of building some speakers with the Dayton Reference line for a while, but I'm unsure which way to go. I currently have a pair of HIVI K1 tweeters which I really like and will use in this system.
RS180P looks like a fair compromise between size and cost, and the paper cone version seems to go higher with smoother breakup. So the 2.5KHz crossover frequency is acheiveable.
So the question here is whether I should go with a single woofer or an MTM.
I'm not familiar with MTM systems, but I guess that two woofers will increase the SPL.
Crossovers will be active and the two 8ohm woofers will run in parallel.
EDIT: Project changed, see post #14
I've been thinking of building some speakers with the Dayton Reference line for a while, but I'm unsure which way to go. I currently have a pair of HIVI K1 tweeters which I really like and will use in this system.
RS180P looks like a fair compromise between size and cost, and the paper cone version seems to go higher with smoother breakup. So the 2.5KHz crossover frequency is acheiveable.
So the question here is whether I should go with a single woofer or an MTM.
I'm not familiar with MTM systems, but I guess that two woofers will increase the SPL.
Crossovers will be active and the two 8ohm woofers will run in parallel.
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This is really personal preferance, I am not that much of a fan of MTM but some really love them. Have you heard any, do you like the sound presentation.
Another possible solution would be a 2.5 way solution where the bottom end is supprted by another identical driver just with a lowerfrequency crossover.
Another possible solution would be a 2.5 way solution where the bottom end is supprted by another identical driver just with a lowerfrequency crossover.
I've eventually decided on RS225-4 either in a 3-way configuration or with a full range. Omnes BB3.5 would work well as a full range and would simplify the whole thing. For a midrange, I would go with Ciare HM130 and the HiVi K1s that I already have.
Fostex also have some speakers in the $30 range, but they're quite low power (15W or so).
I'm open to suggestions.
Fostex also have some speakers in the $30 range, but they're quite low power (15W or so).
I'm open to suggestions.
I'm surprised that 10W drivers are on that list. I know it's mostly used in the mid-high frequencies, but isn't there a big difference in power between the Dayton and them?
It's been said by people much more knowledgeable than me that power handling specs in home audio are mostly irrelevant. All of those drivers have been used in that manner with even lower crossover points without issue afaik. As long as the amplifier is not clipping or you want concert levels in a large room from a small speaker, I don't think you should worry.
I came across Dayton PS95. Would it pair nicely in terms of power in the RS225 over 800Hz or so? It's only rated at 10W, but it's got good reviews.
Dayton Audio PS95-8 3-1/2" Point Source Full Range Driver 8 Ohm
Dayton Audio PS95-8 3-1/2" Point Source Full Range Driver 8 Ohm
The Holtz Statement Monitor uses the RS180-4 along with a TB W4-1337SDF and a ribbon tweeter. I have been looking into this arrangement (interesting open back mid driver) with the paper version (RS180P-4) and swapping the ribbon tweeter out for a more cost effective SB21RDC ring tweeter. They seem to model well in the 24l box ported at around 35hz using just 24db/octave active crossovers in boxsim. A quick plot below with 24l box and 35hz port loading, light padding xover at 400hz and 3khz. There is a slight hump at around 2khz from the mid driver that could be taken out by a notch filter I guess. I reduced the height of the box slightly as I was looking at using a 5" Tube Mid arrangement from the Statesman (easier to construct and takes up less of the volume) rather than the wood constructed version of the Statement Monitor plus looking at options for a front slot port.
Statements_Monitor
Statements_Monitor
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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I think I've settled for a configuration:
RS225 + TC9FD18 + K1
I've modeled the different versions of the 225 and got different options with each of them. Winisd recommends a vented QB3 for the 8 ohm version and a SC4 for the 4 ohm version. As far as I've read, the QB3 alignment has better transient response, right?
RS225 + TC9FD18 + K1
I've modeled the different versions of the 225 and got different options with each of them. Winisd recommends a vented QB3 for the 8 ohm version and a SC4 for the 4 ohm version. As far as I've read, the QB3 alignment has better transient response, right?
Input power of a loudspeaker is usually dictated by the woofer. When given (usually as a 100h noise rms test, so not a sine) it represents conditions under which the loudspeaker is constantly fed with complex (usually pink noise) signal that allows both a mech and thermal test to be carried on.
With standard music (unless you play those meditation sine waves on youtube) power handling would be typically higher and it is usually given under some assumptions. For example, if its a tweeter it may be 100W 2Khz 12db/oct which means if you cross it at 2Khz with a 12db slope you can feed it 100W pink noise and it should do. If you use a 2.5Khz crossover with a 12db slope it may take more, let`s say just as an example 150W. If you use a 4th order slope (24db/oct) it may take more until its own thermal limit is reached, which is typically high. As an extra, if you look at the music signal as a spectrum, in most cases the material above 1Khz will be very limited in amplitude and occurence. And then, on mids and tweeters you will usually use some padding so some extra power would be dissipated by the resistive element (being it a resistor or a higher DCR coil).
So...observe the excursion limit of your woofer, it will dictate the system power handling.
The P3A is quite good. I don't think you'll have any issues. Just make sure you do good decoupling on the amplifier boards.
I'm personally not a fan of LM3886, but if you use them well, you can get something decent.
I think this is going to be a nice project.
I've been initially thinking of using TDA7294 + 2 x LM3886 all on one board and maybe include the filters there as well. That gets rid of a lot of wiring. But I'm not sure if the TDA would handle a 4 ohm load well. I've used the LM3886 before in previous projects and it sounds good with quality external components, proper heatsink and within its specs.
The chips are easy to use for sure. I've heard good things about that TDA, but I've never used one. The life of the LM3886 impresses me. I didn't expect them to last (other chips often give up after a few years), but I haven't seen one die of old age.
Here's a story. I built a 70Wx2 (6ohm) LM3886 amplifier for a friend. It had a little noise, so while I tried to reduce it, I lent him one of my prototype amplifiers. He's super meticulous. His feedback was 1) he couldn't believe how silent the amp was. He couldn't hear a thing with his ear to the speaker. 2) he said it sounded "different" to his LM amp. He would have said better, but you know, it's not easy to admit such a thing.
Anyway, I found that it isn't very easy to get better than -90dB noise (combined) with the LM. That prototype amp of mine became a very small SMD amplifier - about 30mm x 55mm. Anyway, very many people claim the gainclones as being wonderful.
Prototype as in discrete?The chips are easy to use for sure. I've heard good things about that TDA, but I've never used one. The life of the LM3886 impresses me. I didn't expect them to last (other chips often give up after a few years), but I haven't seen one die of old age.
Here's a story. I built a 70Wx2 (6ohm) LM3886 amplifier for a friend. It had a little noise, so while I tried to reduce it, I lent him one of my prototype amplifiers. He's super meticulous. His feedback was 1) he couldn't believe how silent the amp was. He couldn't hear a thing with his ear to the speaker. 2) he said it sounded "different" to his LM amp. He would have said better, but you know, it's not easy to admit such a thing.
Anyway, very many people claim the gainclones as being wonderful.
Discrete amplifiers would be the best option. But three of them at different power levels for each speaker... that's a lot. This is where chip amps fit best.Yes. A design I've been working on for about 10 years.
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